taglossner

Sorry, I searched "live bass" and somehow posted for guitar thread. The post from jonandtice is excellent. I would only add that a lot more wattage is needed IF you're playing bass.

Good day, Bear with me...I love my Helix LT, but, then comes the problem of using it live and getting it loud enough to get over my very, or too, loud drummer. You can go direct, but you will then be at the mercy of the sound guy for monitor. Good luck. Here's my ongoing experiment/ experience: I need to get great tone , or better tone, than my MarkBass Tube 800 head through 4x10 with all the weight and size considerations. That is my benchmark, but I don't use a ton of effects, and I could get most what I needed from my simple, tried and true, Boss ME50B in front of the amp. It is a very loud and lightweight combination of gear for a regularly gigging bass player. I tried a Quilter Bass Block, which sounded flatter, and better, with the Mark 4x10 cab, but not as loud, not loud enough. It was VERY close, as it weighed nothing and seemed to be built like a tank, and a very simple one at that. I tried a QSC K12.2. Great for at home, like a giant studio monitor, but not what I was going for. Tried Peavey DM115'S, SRM450's, and 300's, yeah, you can get them to sound ok, but you probably won't be happy. I purchased all these, and ran pairs in most cases. I am pretty sure the other FRFRs are heavy and not loud enough for my live sound/ volume needs. I think I have found my solution in the Crown XLS 2505, about 450 watts at 8 ohms, 775 watts at 4 ohms. That's with one or two Mark 4x10 cabs. It was open box, $550, and 11 pounds. Almost as loud as my "benchmark rig", not much heavier, and I can get all the wonderful Helix sounds. You can run an 775 watt, two 4x10 cab rig from one side of the amp, or you can do two cabs in stereo, or a crossover. for low and high. Lots of options and redundancy. I do use a high pass to cut off some lows, as I will get plenty, and the house subs will take care of the rest. I am running a split in the helix after the volume; then two compressors, two EQ's. One cuts highs, one cuts lows. The lows are clean as I can get, highs go to effects, then it combines again. I am very happy with this rig so far, and it will likely be my "go to". I HAVE NOT GIGGED WITH IT YET. It is great at practice. Good luck!

9/22/18 Update Before I start, the Helix gets easier and easier to tweak very quickly with each use. If I was to need and an EQ in my chain, cuz the sound guy wants me to cut lows, or I want more highs, that is easily done in seconds, and I can store it somewhere else so I don't have to mess with my painstakingly created patch that sounds good somewhere else, and I can compare the two patches later. Distortion too loud? Just get in and change it as quick as any gear you are already familiar with. There is a learning curve, and experimentation, but it can do whatever you want. I also found that you don't have to do things like you do in the real world. Where yu put things makes a huge difference, and some thing that are not intuitive, work pretty well. Purchased and returned a QSCK12.2. It was an AWESOME speaker. Caveat, I play in a really loud band, with a really loud drummer (I know, it isn't healthy!). So I am looking for serious volume and punch. If you want the QSC only for the loudest home recording monitor in the world or "quiet" stage volumes, again, AWESOME. I also tried ALTO's in the store, but while they are not as expensive, they don't match the QSC. I don't think they were the 315's, maybe the 215's. QSC was better, and yeah costs twice as much. Bottom line, and in my opinion only, there doesn't seem to be a substitute for moving air and headroom. Also, while money has only been a secondary or third consideration behind sound and weight, those are the three things I am considering. My Mark bass tube 800 sounds killer with the ME50B. I usually run two 4x10 cabs, but I can get the job done with one cab. So that is basically my benchmark. I don't get to use all the effects I would like to with the helix. To be clear, I am running the ME50B at 10 and 2 with the DBX compressor model and all eq settngs at 12 o' clock. I have the Mark set at 8 o'clock on the pre and master gain between 10 and 12 o'clock. Really musical, crisp and clear, and LOUD. Again, benchmarking. So this rig is relatively light, but it is still requires more than a car to move, as even a single cab is large. So here I am considering my Helix stage volume dilemma....The helix does not sound as good in front of the Mark rig, and it weighs more and takes more space than the ME 50 B. Also, I keep meeting guys that love the Boss bass stuff, which I believe is really Roland, and would explain the quality sound there. I would add here that I have the newer Boss bass pedal that costs only 200 bucks, and if you are on a tight budget, it is pretty cool, but the lights are annoyingly BRIGHT, and it is TINY. It also does not sound as good in front of my mark rig as the ME50B. Next up, the quilter Bass Block. I is not as loud as the Mark Tube 800. I bought it as a back-up after one of my Mark heads caught on fire. It was my first head, and after 5 years of gigging it BURNED. I had to call the fire department burned; a big disappointment. So I have another, newer, mark tube 800 head, and that is what I used last night, and I bring the Quilter as back up. Now, the Quliter, using the XLR in, and turned up all the way, with the Helix in front of it and the output near 2 o'clock, is almost as loud, and I think is gonna get the job done, and meet my really loud live sound requirement, without adding additional weight , and without really losing any weight, but gaining on sound as I can use the Helix effects (I LOVE the Obsidian), and of curse you can just run a whole different rig to the front of house at the same time, and have a different setting for each song, which I do for my other cover band. So, I will be posting about my success or failure with the Quilter in the live situation, but I love the way it sounds so far. I am going to run the amp at max power and use the Helix for my volumes. Hopefully, the amp will handle it. If it does, I will consider getting a second one and moving away from the wonderful, but heavier, mark tube 800 head, and perhaps even go to smaller cabs. I hope this answers questions for somebody, and I will be back after more experimenting and the next live trial in November.

I really appreciate the response. A lot of guys are not talking Bass with the helix. I would go get a pair of those Altos in a second if I thought they were going to do it. Based on what you posted I'm thinking I'm going to have to try it. Yes, this is all a trade-off. But I'd happily leave the mark rig home to have more rigs at my fingertips, or feet, and a little bit less to carry.

When I've recorded bass, there are usually three lines, and three tones, running simutaneously. Say, bass ( with compressor) straight to board, close mic'd cab, and distant mic'd cab. These three get mixed into one really fat sound. Then you hear the recording and you're trying to dial in that fat sound with just one amp. Tough to do. If you ever plug into two amps at the same time, you'll hear exactly what I'm talking about. It's just a lot fatter sound. I try to run two of whatever you're doing and mix it into one. Hope that helps.

Good day! Just thought I'd share my experience... First, bass amp models sound much better after tweaking. Anything to "tighten up" the sound, like the sag and mic distance. Second, two paths sound better than one; flattens up your tone. Third, dialing in a tone as close to live volume through my home pa gets me closest to what it will sound like live through the fronts, but headphones get you close. Usually I am asked to turn down the lows a bit, if anything. I went live for a show with a loud drummer (godsmack tribute) and ONLY a Peavey DM115 (no back line). I managed, but it didn't cut it. Not loud enough, and no subtleties came through. Guitar players seem to have no trouble with the same set up, but most sound guys don't seem to fully understand modelers, and that we are trying to avoid being at their mercy for monitor volume. This is less of an issue in larger clubs with larger PAs and good sound guys. Best sound I get now is backlining with my mark bass tube 800 through a single 4x10. I use the helix in front of it, replacing my tried and true, and hard to beat, ME 50B, for volume, tuner, compressor, effects. Honestly, I haven't figured out how to make it sound as crisp and clean as the me-50b, but it's close. Now here's the thing, I run a completely different rig to the front of house. Usually the Hartke with the 8x10. Lots of compliments, and I can hear over the rest of band. I have not yet found a monitor that is loud enough for me to go without the back line. I'm about to get a QSC power amp and Yamaha 12 inch monitors. I'm hoping that's going to work out. As much as I would like to walk in with just a combo amp, my situation requires serious volume, and I can't only bring one amp and hope it doesn't blow. Lastly, my mark rig with the ME 50B, is very portable, and sounds better than most rigs to my ear. I bring an extra head with me just in case and I actually run two 4 by 10s. But I don't get all the bells and whistles I get with the helix. That's where I'm at! I didn't see anyone else posting about playing bass through the helix to the extent that I'm trying to. Comments and suggestions are welcome!