Volume scale a patch?

[Palico]

At rehersal yesterday, I found something rather intresting on some of my tones. The Bassist had wild hair and was just wanting it loud. So I adjusted my DT to keep up. But I noticed something in particular, the patches I ususally go to just didn't work at the volume level. It was if they had too much brightness and note definition in them. After a bit or rehersal the bassist had to leave early. So I rolled the volume back off a bit and bam the tone were back.

 

Any ideas on what on the fly type changes I could make to adjust the patches if I get into that situation again? On my patches I tend to use the 4x12 T75. But at higher volume levels the darker sounding cabs models like the 4x12 V30 and 4x12 Greenback 25 really seemed to work better.

[MartinDorr]

Can't say I have real experience with that problem, but if in the same shoe I would try the following:

* DT Master at 3 o'clock (don't change it as it won't get much louder even when you go to 5 o'clock and I feel the tube effect actually diminishes)

* HD Master at about 10-11o'clock for quiet/medium home/practice and all the way up if you need the volume.

* You will need to adjust EQ for large volume differences (I think best approach today is a graphic EQ pedal in DT effects loop; also a good idea to adjust for everpresent venue differences).

If you get extra distortion from cranking HD master you probably have an HD internal signal level that's too high; cut back on amp channel volume and effect gains.

My practical approach to DT tones and volume balancing is to put the mixer at the very end and only use it to addjust for DT power amp differences by dialing the amp path gain down for higher volume configurations so that the tones match the lowest volume power amp config. If you are interrested in diving deeper into this topic let me know and I'll post what I do in detail.

Good luck,

Martin

[Palico]

Thanks for the suggestions. Odd thing to me was it wasn't a too much gain type of sound. It was almost a not enough gain or maybe just too much brightness or defintiion (normally not a bad thing but was this time). I always thought the Bass preception was supposed to increase as volume increased but this seemed almost the opposite. The notes just seem to cut off very quickly. Could be just a playing tehnique issue too I guess, my band usually is not very loud. Tube issues or problems on my Variax could be it as well. I have noticed some incosistant oddness at gigs sometimes. Maybe a tube change is in order.

 

Putting at least a pedal form graphic EQ in the DT effects loop sounds like it might be my best plan of action. The upcoming global EQ would work but a real one would be a lot quicker to adjust from show to show. Maybe a MXR 10 Band? Any other suggestions?

[talwilkins]

 If you are interrested in diving deeper into this topic let me know and I'll post what I do in detail.

Good luck,

Martin

Please do!

[MartinDorr]

K,

let's start with this little summary I put together for the DT behavior

 

DT25 Power Amp Parameters.pdf

 

 

[Palico]

It took me a a long time but I think I found what was causing this.  Due to variances in patch volume or swtich guitar models on the variax and to other guitars, I always have volume pedal setup since extra slots is usually not a problem I use the Vol/Pan pedal for this. Basically I want a master type volume control but at my foot, so I alwasy set it in post amp, that way it affects just of the overall volume hopefully not the tone.  Well on these patches I have delay and reverb post amp as well. I had the volume pedal directly after the amp model then delay and reverb. I moved the volume pedal to the very end of the chain right in front of the looper and the sustain of the notes and tone problems disappear. Honestly I would have thought having it front of the reverb might have been better since it would not lower the reverb trails as I roll the volume off. But I also notice on the POD some effects just act strangely, as I learned playing with the pitch glide. They might be accurate to the original too, since I'm basically putting a volume pedal in the effects loop. Maybe I should use not use the Volume/Pan and just assign the the Channel volume. But I would really rather use it on the master volume of the entire POD/DT. I'm never satisfied with volume settings on my patches so I could never see performing with volume control at my feet.

[MartinDorr]

What you are experiencing with the Vol pedal placement impacting tone differences in your signal path does not make sense to me, but it is what it is ;-(.

I would use Channel Volume only to keep the output of your amp model at a healty signal level (my take on that is <= -12dBFS for peaks).

Use Delay and Reverb (or any other post amp effect) settings that do not change volume.

Use HD Master to adjust to room/venue

[Palico]

I really think the difference (and it's minor but enough to throw me off sometimes) is the output level I'm feeding to the delay and verb effect. Yea I'm think I'm going to adjust all my patches to use the channel volume as what you describe is pretty close to the way I like to use it.