DT25 Voicing IV (modern high-gain) in Pod HD500X

[jsuller]

hi,

I've just bought a DT25 and an HD500X. Both things are amazing, but I absolutely love the "Voicing IV modern high-gain" that comes with my DT25. However, I haven't been able to get the same sound when I plug the HD500X into my DT25. In other words, the amp by itself seems to sound better than the HD500X + the amp.

Which is the amp that this Voicing IV on my DT25 is based on?

I've been able to replicate the other 3 voicings (so, the HD500X + DT25 sounds almost identical to the DT25 sounds), but I can't find anything similar to Voicing IV (Bogner Uber pre is the most similar thing I've found, but I still prefer the DT25 original voicing).

I'm using the HD500X Line6 link with an XLR AES/EBU (as recommended). All the amps in the HD500X are in "PRE" position, too.

 

Can anybody help me, pls?

 

Thanks

 

[grandinq]

Greetings!

 

The DT25/HD500 is a great combo -- you are going to love it.

 

The equivalent to Topology (Voicing) IV on the DT25 is the Treadplate.  With your amp connected using the L6 link, on your POD, select Treadplate Pre.  Interestingly, when you do that, the Pod will change the DT25 to Topology III.  You would have to then manually switch the DT25 to IV, or you can do it in the HD Editor if your Pod is connected to your computer. 

 

You might even like the sound with Topology III better.  It is much brighter.

 

With the Pod connected to the DT, you can now have all sorts of fun, switching around from Pentode and Triode, Class A and A/B, changing the default Topologies on the preamp models, trying out different cabs (or no cab).  There is a lot to play with, and no rules! 

[jsuller]

hi, thanks for answering my question.

I've tried what you said, but the DT25 Voicing IV sounds much fuller and richer than the Treadplate Pre (I've tried changing the Topology and I can't notice any significant difference -even in Topology I -which should be "clean / Fender-like"??, sounds the same.

In fact, with the HD500X connected (via L6 link), there's no difference in sound when I change "manually" things on the DT25 (pentode / Triode / Class A / B / Topology). The "light" changes, but I can't notice any difference. However, with the HD500X unplugged, any little change on the amp is clearly noticeable.

 

The Treadplate through the HD500x sounds much thinner, with much less attack than voicing IV in the DT25. I've tried with / without cab and the DT25 original sound is definitely much better.

Any other ideas?

Thank you very much!!!

[grandinq]

I am not sure what to tell you, except that a few years ago this was a very hot topic around here.  I thought similarly myself at one time.  The key is knowing exactly what settings are used in both.  For example. the DT25 has an option for a digital boost, accessible via midi.  On the Pod, I believe the equivalent of that is setting input 2 to "same."  The DT25 also has a cab simulation as well, also accessible via midi. 

 

I set up a Pod patch using only Treadplate Pre with the DT25 manually switched over to Top IV., and dialed in some eq/drive settings.  I then set up Channel B on the DT25 to the same settings.  I have attached a short sample of me playing with each.  I can't tell the difference.   Let me know what you think.

DT25 IV sample.mp3

POD tread.mp3

[jsuller]

I am not sure what to tell you, except that a few years ago this was a very hot topic around here.  I thought similarly myself at one time.  The key is knowing exactly what settings are used in both.  For example. the DT25 has an option for a digital boost, accessible via midi.  On the Pod, I believe the equivalent of that is setting input 2 to "same."  The DT25 also has a cab simulation as well, also accessible via midi. 

 

I set up a Pod patch using only Treadplate Pre with the DT25 manually switched over to Top IV., and dialed in some eq/drive settings.  I then set up Channel B on the DT25 to the same settings.  I have attached a short sample of me playing with each.  I can't tell the difference.   Let me know what you think.

 

hi, Although the quality of the recording is not very good, to my ears both samples sound pretty similar.

I'll try to keep on dialling some eq/drive settings, but to my ears the base sound of the Treadplate pre sounds really different from the sound in the DT25 Voicing IV and I don't think I'll be able to get the sound I can get from my DT25 by using the Treadplate (I think that the Bogner Uberamp pre has more "potential" to achieve a similar sound. I was even thinking about using only the effects of the HD500X (like pedals) -no preamps- and use the base clean Topology I and hi gain Topology IV in the amp.

I guess that I still need a few weeks to get the hang of using both things at the same time. 

By the way, can you attach your patch here pls, so that I can download it and try it with my HD500X?

Thanks

[radatats]

 I guess that I still need a few weeks to get the hang of using both things at the same time.

 

One thing you need to know when using the DT and POD is what the topology does for each.  For the DT standalone, the topology switch selects amp/cab/mic patches, not actual topology at all.  The only way to be sure what is actually assigned to each topology voicing in channel A and channel B is to use a third party editor like DT Edit (https://code.google.com/p/dtedit/) with a midi connection. Once you see exactly what amp/cab/mic is assigned, and the associated settings, (topology, boost, etc.) you can make the same patch in your POD.

 

In the POD, using HD Edit, changing the topology does what you would expect, it changes the negative feedback loop in the power section.  Having your standalone DT set to topology IV has absolutely nothing to do with the actual topology of the selected model in the POD.  Set your amp/cab/mic and associated settings to exactly match what is in the DT and my experience is it will be the same.  Don't forget that the drive, tone stack and channel volume settings you like in the DT standalone should be set exactly the same in your POD patch as well.

 

I personally like to set my DT master to 3 o'clock and use my POD master to control final volume levels.  Not sure it makes a difference but whatever combination you decide to use, try to remain consistent from gig to gig.  The last thing to remember is that for each standalone DT voicing you can also select which reverb model it uses, from plate to particle reverb.  The DT reverb works independently even with the POD connected and is only controlled by the physical knob on the DT.

 

Have fun with it!  You really can get it just as good as the standalone DT and it's much easier to use...

[grandinq]

hi, Although the quality of the recording is not very good, to my ears both samples sound pretty similar.

 

I was using the voice memo app on my phone, so yeah, not great quality.    But I tell you, they were the same.  Might have been a slight difference in volume.  When using the Pod, you have the master volume on the Pod and DT to deal with, so balancing them to duplicate a sound requires addressing that.  Also, there is the matter that I am sure I didn't put my phone in the exact same place for each sample.

 

I have uploaded the patch here, as you can't upload tone files to the forum:

 

http://line6.com/customtone/tone/1131975/

 

It is extremely basic.  I even left out a noise gate because the DT doesn't have one in stand alone mode.

 

Try the Angel F-Ball as another hi gain option.  I love the sound of that one with Top III.

[jsuller]

thanks mates for your comments and for sharing your patches.

I've tried grandinq's patch and with my equipment it sounds very different from the DT25 original tone. The sound through the HD500X sounds less warm than the real amp. I've A/Bd the HD and the DT25 with the exact settings, eq, gain and the sound is different.

 

I've tried absolutely all combinations (all cabinets + all the microphones) and the combination that sounds, IMHO, closer to the original DT25 IV voicing is the Treadplate + 87 condenser mike + 112 Field Coil (this speaker really shocked me, cause it doesn't have anything to do with the kind of music it was designed for, but... to my ears, it's the speaker through which I can get the most "approximate" sound. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but I'm convinced that everything is properly connected and set (I've read the instructions a few times and I've watched tones of videos on Youtube explaining how to set up the HD500x+ the DT25).

It seems as though the original DT25 had some kind of "hidden" pedal -maybe a heavy metal distortion or similar- that gives the DT25 original tone a unique character, which I love!!!

I've managed to get some really good sounds with the HD500X + the DT25, but... I'm missing the IV DT voicing :-(

 

Thanks again anyway mates for your help

BTW, does anybody have the DT Edit and the midi cable and has been able to access the settings of the DT25 to see exactly what they are using?

 

Theoretically, with the HD500X you should be able to achive any pream on the DT25. Or not?

 

Another thing: I'm using the Low Volume Mode. I don't know if this issue can have any influence on this difference between the standalone DT25 or the HD500X + the DT25.

 

Best wishes

 

 

 

 

 

 

[radatats]

BTW, does anybody have the DT Edit and the midi cable and has been able to access the settings of the DT25 to see exactly what they are using?

Another thing: I'm using the Low Volume Mode. I don't know if this issue can have any influence on this difference between the standalone DT25 or the HD500X + the DT25.

 

I gave you the direct link to DT Edit in my post above, its free.  To connect most of us seem to use the M-Audio Uno unit with no issues.

 

Of course using LVM changes everything!  LVM forces the DT to use full amp models to try to compensate for the lower volume.  No matter what you think you are dialing in in the POD, the DT is going to change it in LVM.  My advice, leave LVM off,  Use only preamp models in the POD to match what's in the DT.  I never liked LVM anyways.

 

DT Edit

[jsuller]

hi,

Thanks for all your help, mates.

 

It seems that the main problem was the LVM. Once I've left the LVM off, the sounds of the HD500X through the DT25 are much better and more similar to the DT standalone voicings. However, the LVM gave the IV voicing a special character that now has disappeared (and which I loved, at least at low volumes at home). I suppose that in normal conditions where I can turn up the amp loud (rehearsal room or live situations) I'll be able to get back the special character that now has disappeared.

It seems as if Line6 technicians have put some kind of added distortion or something to compensate for low volumes when the LVM is on (all the sounds are really different now -anyway, I really loved the sounds I had with the LVM on.

Now the balance between patches has changed, too. I had programmed a few patches (clean, crunch, hi gain for lead, etc) that were really balanced volume-wise. Now (with the LVM off) the distortion channels are like 3 times louder than the clean channels. I've had to turn down the volume in all the patches that had some kind of distortion.

 

As for the M-Audio Uno cable, it's pretty difficult to find in my country (I am from Spain), and I would have to pay through the nose for something similar in a shop or loads of shipping costs if I order it online. I was hoping to find somebody that could make a screen capture of voicing IV of the DT25 with the DT Edit (but now, with the LVM off, I think that I don't need it anymore :-)

 

Thanks again mates for your help and regards from Spain

 

Josep Suller

[radatats]

It wouldn't necessarily help to see what someone else has on voicing IV because it is changeable by the user!  Yours may well be different from someone else.

 

You can always try building patches in the POD using the full amp model instead of the preamp model to match your DT in LVM.  There is no right or wrong way to do things so just do what your ears tell you is best!

 

By the way, any USB - midi device will work to connect your computer to your DT, you don't have to use the UNO...

[grandinq]

In LVM, the power amp section is modeled as well. So maybe that his what you are hearing. You could try doing the full Treadplate model rather than the pre, as that has the power amp modeling. I am not a big fan of full models on the DT25 -- they have a muddiness to them to my ears-- but it's all a matter of individual taste.

[jpelzel]

For the DT standalone, the topology switch selects ampcab/mic patches, not actual topology at all. 

 

Is this right? I though it changed the topology along with those others listed.

[radatats]

Is this right? I though it changed the topology along with those others listed.

 

Nope, it only chooses the voicing on the DT standalone.  The voicing is a combination of amp/cab/mic and reverb model.  You can change that to whatever you want using a third party editor like DT Edit and a USB-midi device and your computer.  You can only change actual topology using your POD or with an editor.  Once changed with the editor it remains as you set it.

 

The DT topology switch lets you choose from 8 stored amp/cab/mic/reverb combinations; 4 in channel A and 4 in channel B.

[grandinq]

I may have added to the confusion. I was using topology and voicing interchangably..  My bad....