Using top row stomps to midi change functions on my amp, going CRAZY! :(

[RichardLainegard]

Hi!

Got my Helix this Friday and have spent some time setting things up,
it is really transparent, even in my amps extremely transaprent FX-loop
there's hardly any discernible tonal change (had to tweak around a bit with
line vs instrument level, input impedance etc).

HOWEVER!!!
Going absolutely crazy here and need HELP!

My channel has 4 channels, each channel has boost, pregain, fat-switch and other
functions dedicated and midi switchable.

So, I set up the helix with bottom row presets (one for each channel)
and top row stomps within that preset.
This way I can have 5 "variations" on each channel (and 4CM).
So, the preset row was easy, I just hit that preset and activate
the combinations I want ont he amp, and flip the save toggle on the amp, done!

However, example: on preset one (clean), I want the stomp right above that
to activate the boost (via midi) and delay at the same time.
However, whatever I try in the midi menu it doesn't work.
if I save the preset with the delay/boost stomp in off mode and save the amp, fine,

that's what engages when I activate that preset. but if I now activate the boost on the amp
and hit the delay stomp, and press the save toggle on the amp (not saving on the Helix) it will save that
info to the PRESET. So, if I now hit preset two to go to channel two, when I hit preset one again,
it will default to the clean channel WITH the boost engaged (and switching the delay stomp on and off does nothing).

It's like ONLY the preset row can send midi program change info to the amp

 

PS. for all the presets, I've no assigned ANYTHING to those switches in the global menu,

it's like the Helix is still sending something out and the amp saves that info, hence the presets
always work just as any midi footswitch I've used in the past, but the stomp row does not.


OF course, I could opt to ONLY use presets, but that would leave me with 8 only,
I would MUCH rather have it set up as above with on/off switchable stuff within the preset
for a total of 20 variations on bank 1 alone.

HELP, HILFE, HJÄLP!

[tmntshredder]

A couple of questions for you...what kind of amp are you using? Also, how are you setting this up in the command center? My amp only responds to program change commands, and it took me a while to figure it out.

[RichardLainegard]

A couple of questions for you...what kind of amp are you using? Also, how are you setting this up in the command center? My amp only responds to program change commands, and it took me a while to figure it out.

 

Well, there you go... I think we're in the same boat. The midi card in mine (custom build from Swedish TappAmps),

also only responds to Program Change (I was told by the builder thusly).

 

So... in other words, there's no way for me to do this setup? I'll have to use presets only then?

[tmntshredder]

Well, there you go... I think we're in the same boat. The midi card in mine (custom build from Swedish TappAmps),

also only responds to Program Change (I was told by the builder thusly).

 

So... in other words, there's no way for me to do this setup? I'll have to use presets only then?

Not necessarily. I'm guessing you can put your amp into a learning mode of some kind. You should be able to set the configuration you want on the amp and send the program change message that you want to coincide with that setup from the Helix. All of this can be set up in the command center, but you will have to send a bank/prog command, not a midi cc command. Try this:

 

Go into the command center and select the footswitch that you want to use. Choose bank/prog for the command and midi ch 1. Bank cc00 and bank cc32 should be left turned off. Chose whatever program value that you want to correspond with this command. Keep in mind that whatever you have set up thus far will have a program value assigned to it already. For instance, if you've set up a program change to occur when you select bank 1, then the program change value for that will be 0, followed by 1 for bank 2, etc. Select a value not already in use. Set your amp how you want it and set it to learn that message.

 

I hope this helps, because I know how frustrating it can be.

[Digital_Igloo]

If you want Helix to only send PC messages manually; that is, not when switching presets, you must turn Global Settings > MIDI/Tempo > PC Send/Receive off.

[RichardLainegard]

I tried this, and then I got the amp to react when I assigned a number to it, however, it changed channels instead of activating the
boost, and when I turned the fx-stomp off, it didn't change back. Do I need to make the amp see a different "Program" number
for state within the preset?
That is: Base preset "Program no.x", then activate boost "program no.xx" then deactivate it to make it return to the base preset
another "program no.xxx"?

DO wish I had taken som crash course in midi at some point, this is all highly frustrating!  :wacko:

[RichardLainegard]

Not necessarily. I'm guessing you can put your amp into a learning mode of some kind. You should be able to set the configuration you want on the amp and send the program change message that you want to coincide with that setup from the Helix. All of this can be set up in the command center, but you will have to send a bank/prog command, not a midi cc command. Try this:

 

Go into the command center and select the footswitch that you want to use. Choose bank/prog for the command and midi ch 1. Bank cc00 and bank cc32 should be left turned off. Chose whatever program value that you want to correspond with this command. Keep in mind that whatever you have set up thus far will have a program value assigned to it already. For instance, if you've set up a program change to occur when you select bank 1, then the program change value for that will be 0, followed by 1 for bank 2, etc. Select a value not already in use. Set your amp how you want it and set it to learn that message.

 

I hope this helps, because I know how frustrating it can be.

Also, what confuses me is that NO other switch thus far has anything assigned to it.

In preset mode I just set the amp to whatever I like, hit the "save" toggle on the amp,

and it is automatically saved with that patch (all the footswitches in command center reads "none").

So that works flawlessly, but can't seem to find the right way to turn things on and off through midi

in the same way I turn FX on and on the physical buttons.

[tmntshredder]

I tried this, and then I got the amp to react when I assigned a number to it, however, it changed channels instead of activating the

boost, and when I turned the fx-stomp off, it didn't change back. Do I need to make the amp see a different "Program" number

for state within the preset?

That is: Base preset "Program no.x", then activate boost "program no.xx" then deactivate it to make it return to the base preset

another "program no.xxx"?

 

DO wish I had taken som crash course in midi at some point, this is all highly frustrating!  :wacko:

You definitely want to have a different program number assigned to each thing you want the amp to do. For example, program 1 could be something like channel 1 with boost active. You would then need to have another program, be it program 2 or whatever works for you, for channel 1 with boost inactive. Remember, you've already set the amp up to make changes when you call up certain presets. If you try to use the program number that corresponds with the preset change, the amp is going to change to whatever is previously stored. Also, make sure that you press the switch that you are assigning the midi command to after you have everything set up in the Helix. This will send the midi command to the amp so it can learn it. Based on what you are telling me about the amp, it sounds like you would then press the save toggle on the amp to save the change. 

[RichardLainegard]

You definitely want to have a different program number assigned to each thing you want the amp to do. For example, program 1 could be something like channel 1 with boost active. You would then need to have another program, be it program 2 or whatever works for you, for channel 1 with boost inactive. Remember, you've already set the amp up to make changes when you call up certain presets. If you try to use the program number that corresponds with the preset change, the amp is going to change to whatever is previously stored. Also, make sure that you press the switch that you are assigning the midi command to after you have everything set up in the Helix. This will send the midi command to the amp so it can learn it. Based on what you are telling me about the amp, it sounds like you would then press the save toggle on the amp to save the change. 

Will try this after work! I do wonder... 

1.) I have my basic clean preset, and that with delay and boost off is my default, and thus I have that stored in the amp as well.

2.) I then go in to the global menu and assign both delay and a midi PC to the switch above that one. 

Question, is the midi PC automatically configured to send only when the switch is engaged (i.e Delay activated)?

If so, how do I get it to turn the boost off when I turn the delay off? I got it to do "something" yesterday when trying this,

that is, it changed channels on the amp when I activated the delay instead of boost (but that is probably the number wrong).

HOWEVER, when I switched that delay/boost stomp of on the helix, the amp did NOT revert back.

It's like I can send a message to change something when I activate the switch, but not when I turn it off again.

 

 

This made me thing, is a there a converter or something I could use to make this work

(PC for the presets, and CC for boost, pregain etc)?

Found this for example.

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodrel.htm

[RichardLainegard]

Another thing struck me.
Would it be so that the preset switch needs PC commands right. 
Then the FX switches will send CC when engaged to activate the boost,
but needs to send a PC message when disengaged to make the amp revert back to the "base preset"?