Tap tempo isn't accurate

[Indianrock2020]

It may not matter or be noticeable but I've observed tap tempo jump around and land on various millisecond values.  Since I never use it, my "test" was using my fingers to tap the tempo while I helped a friend set up his new 500x.  

This friend always uses tap tempo at gigs.  I hard-code the milliseconds in based on the song's tempo and using one of the many delay calculators out there, like:  http://tomhess.net/Tools/DelayCalculator.aspx

 

105 bpm dotted 8th=429 ms           This might be what you "tapped" on a song that is really 100bpm
100 bpm dotted 8th= 450 ms

 

First, it may not matter much if tap tempo is inaccurate, but the other issue is changes to tempo at the last minute.  Our church music leader has a habit of going with his gut and changing the tempo assigned at rehearsal on Thursday to something else during our brief practice Sunday morning.   Most songs are launched by the drummer from a click track.
So all my patch creation ( per song ) may still yield an inaccurate delay.

[pianoguyy]

While I wanted a tap tempo on my keyboard devices years before they started using it, the flaw in tap tempo is going to be the human that is doing the tapping. Not everyone is as accurate as they think. 

 

And then, on my L6 gear, you have the added issue of the physical button itself. 

 

 

 

If you sat and tapped for one minute, a difference of 100-105 between a few clicks is actually pretty decent. 

 

 

And just to be philosophical for a minute: 

Music becomes stale when everything is precisely quantized. 

[Palico]

First, it may not matter much if tap tempo is inaccurate, but the other issue is changes to tempo at the last minute.  Our church music leader has a habit of going with his gut and changing the tempo assigned at rehearsal on Thursday to something else during our brief practice Sunday morning.   Most songs are launched by the drummer from a click track.

So all my patch creation ( per song ) may still yield an inaccurate delay.

 

Which is exactly why you need tap tempo.....  Might not be perfect but music rarely is. Listen to a lot of the older "classic" time tested songs. Then attempt to tap them into a metronome.  You will either end up with conclusion the metronome is inaccurate, which is possible, or your tap as off, possible, or the original musicians deviated a bit, very possible. Personally I don't like recording a click track for this reason alone, it doesn't feel right.  Starting off with one though is different as it helps with consistency. And your drummer/musicians do need be fairly accurate.

[Indianrock2020]

Accuracy aside, the other reason I don't use tap tempo is because some songs follow others almost immediately.  If your guitar part plays a role in the first beats of the next song, and you're busy tapping tempo, then....     On the other hand, switching to the next patch with the correct delay already built-in isn't immediate either.  ****  I should probably consider changing my global settings so the bottom four foot-switches move immediately from one patch to the next without any Bank switch tapping.  I only use one or two foot-swtiches in the top row for effects anyway.

It really comes down to preferences and whether your band leader wants delay or not.    If you can get close with tap tempo, and it truly only takes two taps, then that is probably faster than switching patches.

[Palico]

Accuracy aside, the other reason I don't use tap tempo is because some songs follow others almost immediately.  If your guitar part plays a role in the first beats of the next song, and you're busy tapping tempo, then....     On the other hand, switching to the next patch with the correct delay already built-in isn't immediate either.  ****  I should probably consider changing my global settings so the bottom four foot-switches move immediately from one patch to the next without any Bank switch tapping.  I only use one or two foot-swtiches in the top row for effects anyway.

 

It really comes down to preferences and whether your band leader wants delay or not.    If you can get close with tap tempo, and it truly only takes two taps, then that is probably faster than switching patches.

 

If your not using all 8 of the foot switches then it would likely make more sense use "ABCD" mode instead so you switch quicker. Also I'm pretty sure the tap still takes if the Delay is disabled, because the tap in the system is can be used for multiple effects. Might not be helpful in your situation but might be as you could toss the delay in once you get chorus or some musical passage if fits. I'm not doing P&W at the moment, I did in the past so I know that style does typically use a lot of delay.  In my realm I often hit delays for when I jump into a lead but those are not usually tapped as they mixed pretty far back anyway.

[pianoguyy]

Listen to a lot of the older "classic" time tested songs. Then attempt to tap them into a metronome.  

1. Many older songs used variable tempo on purpose, which isn't used as much today because everything is computerized. 

2. Tape. Some of the time differences is because of the use of tape, which stretches and therefore does not offer accurate playback. Which also explains why tunings don't match, 

 

 

**funny story. 

When I was playing with Meat Loaf, all of the old songs were in lower keys than the originals. I made mention of it, and asked if he can't hit those notes anymore. Just as a joke. I mean, I know sometimes we change keys just to make song transition smoother. I wasn't being rude.  

 

But the answer was - No, he can't hit those notes, but he never hit those notes. The original tapes were sped up (and therefore higher in pitch) to make them fit in the time alloted for records. 

It's different today with a CD allowing 80 minutes of continuous play, or digital which allows for no time limit. But back then, you had time limits not just for the album, but per side. Or an 8-track, with 4 "sides". Damn, I used to hate when the song would go silent because of the channel flip. 

 

Could you imagine what Pink Floyd would sound like today, if they could make one long Dark Side of the Moon with no time restrictions and the Dolby surround sound speakers.  

[Indianrock2020]

Oh yeah I remember 8-tracks.  I might yet convert to tapping in tempo.  It matters more on some songs than others, that's for sure.

 

Some songs, especially with heavy use of dotted-eighth delay would sound best with accurate settings.  Of course when U2 developed dotted eighth, things were still pretty low tech:

U2 Where the Streets Have No Name     delays start 50 seconds in

 

The intro has a bit of palm-muted single-note with delay where the tempo is probably important enough to be precise.

Chris Tomlin Once and For All

[Palico]

1. Many older songs used variable tempo on purpose, which isn't used as much today because everything is computerized. 

2. Tape. Some of the time differences is because of the use of tape, which stretches and therefore does not offer accurate playback. Which also explains why tunings don't match, 

 

 

**funny story. 

When I was playing with Meat Loaf, all of the old songs were in lower keys than the originals. I made mention of it, and asked if he can't hit those notes anymore. Just as a joke. I mean, I know sometimes we change keys just to make song transition smoother. I wasn't being rude.  

 

But the answer was - No, he can't hit those notes, but he never hit those notes. The original tapes were sped up (and therefore higher in pitch) to make them fit in the time alloted for records. 

It's different today with a CD allowing 80 minutes of continuous play, or digital which allows for no time limit. But back then, you had time limits not just for the album, but per side. Or an 8-track, with 4 "sides". Damn, I used to hate when the song would go silent because of the channel flip. 

 

Could you imagine what Pink Floyd would sound like today, if they could make one long Dark Side of the Moon with no time restrictions and the Dolby surround sound speakers.  

 

Yea on your point 1. That was kind of what I was attempting to say. The completely computerized stuff at least for me takes away from teh music in IMO. 

 

I had heard of your point 2 but never realized it was that prevalent. Heard a couple of the Robert Johnson tracks supposed adjusted back for this. To me I was not sure the adjusted tracks were/are correct. But I can say his voice on the tracks adjusted back does sound at lot more like what I would have expected someone of his time frame and statue to sound like. 

 

Cool story too. Thanks for sharing.

[pianoguyy]

My bad, I thought you were just talking about intermittent changes of tempo due to human inaccuracy. Whereas I was talking about purposefully changing tempo between parts.

 

 

 

I can't speak for RJ, how old do you think I am, LOL. But there are a lot of stories like that. Not just to fit into the time allotted, but I mean, think about all of the older technology that we used to have to use. Electricity wasn't common, and voltage certainly wasn't regulated. Sometimes you even had to hand crank your gizmo. So, you go into a recording studio, and if the voltage was off, it would cause the machines to run slightly slower. And then when mastered on a machine with good electricity, it appears to be sped up.

 

That, when learning songs, was actually how I use to match tunings prior to having a good pitch shifter. I would speed up or slow down the tape on my wheel-to-wheel. If a song didn't have a standard tuning (especially something like Van Halen that was a 1/4 step instead of a 1/2 step), or if I wanted to play it in a different key - I would copy it to my wtw, and use the speed control until the pitch matched. That's also why I used to have to play EVH slightly faster than EVH did.

 

Tape stretches. Belts that run the machines (before we used chains) stretch and could even slip. All of these things can cause time and pitch variations, which is greatly off topic of tempo accuracy, but who cares - I think that has been answered simply by saying "humans are inaccurate". It is time to discuss the rest of the stuff now, lol.

[Palico]

I can't speak for RJ, how old do you think I am, LOL

 

lol. Not that old but I had not realized the pitch variations where still common before the computer based recording era. I did some recording when I was younger to 4 track tape. To me, then at least it seemed pretty accurate but it was also a home recording type of setup so all one take all instruments at once in different rooms. Never tried to play back against it. The next opportunity I had to record, which was much later, computers were in common use. So I've mostly been recording the computer era.