Spider V 120 Volume Lower Than Spider IV 75

[Crito]

I gigged with my new Spider V 120 for the first time last night. I'd previously used a Spider IV 75 with the same band in the same club (using the same guitar), and had had no problems cutting through, but with the Spider V 120 the guitar was buried despite being maxed out on both the volume pedal and the Master volume, on all patches. (I play jazz funk-fusion and generally use clean sounds, but even the patches that had Classic Distortion it didn't cut like I expected; the only sounds that were as loud as I'd expected were those using a Synth sound). Given that the Spider V is supposed to have 45 more watts than the Spider IV, I was very disappointed. (I doubt that the difference has to do with the tweeter in the V...). Has anybody found an effective way of boosting the overall output of the V 120? I'd rather not run through the PA (which is already overburdened).

[guitardad123]

Use the post EQ. That will boost the vol quite a bit

[Crito]

Thanks for the idea, guitardad123. I've been avoiding using the PEQ because I'm never sure how it will affect tone in real-world settings, but if I can use it for volume boost I will. Do you just boost all frequencies equally to get the volume boost?

[gtrman100]

Use the post EQ. That will boost the vol quite a bit

 

How are you boosting the volume using post EQ without  changing the EQ? There isn't a gain control.

[guitardad123]

Thanks for the idea, guitardad123. I've been avoiding using the PEQ because I'm never sure how it will affect tone in real-world settings, but if I can use it for volume boost I will. Do you just boost all frequencies equally to get the volume boost?

There's a great deal of headroom in the amp. Post EQ to boost and shape the tone. I did the same with other modeling products. It really helps any modeler. You can boost all frq's the same, but as any boost, it can change the final output. Change the post eq as needed to get the level you want, but to also reshape the sound at that new level. It's not really a linear thing in my experience.

[katerlouis]

Curious if the thread opener is satisfied with the suggested solutions.

I also upgraded from a Spider IV 75 to a V 120 and faced the exact same disappointment after first rehearsal. 

 

Eventually I returned the 120 and upgraded to the new 240Head, which is also not ideal for me :(

[xutrah]

A Spider V 120 story:

Had major buyer's remorse when I started working with a loud drummer. I freaked when he said turn
up and all my volume thingies already read 10. For a change, before throwing money at the problem
and getting the 240 version, I decided to really start examining and understanding as many of the
options the Spider V has as I could before shelling out the cash. There are a lot!

 

Background:
I'm running a Windoze PC (ver 7, 64 bit). Downloaded the Spider Remote program and hooked
it up via USB to the 120 no problem. I used the PC editing program with my previous
Spider IV so I figured the new editing program would be as full featured. Not! It is obviously
a port from the Android/iPhone version and does not give access to all preset options. Also
the user interface is rather clunky. But it works.

 

Homework:
Get very familiar with the Spider's front panel editing capability, you'll need it. For example,
it's the only place you can modify the cabinet model option.

 

Rant:
Line 6 is not doing itself or us the users any service by not publishing a comprehensive
guide to using the Spider Remote program and the front panel editing capability. This is a
great amp but only when one puts in substantial time to tweak it properly. Tough to do when
fumbling around in the dark.

 

Front Panel Editing Info:
This is a table of the sections in the front panel editing capability. Note the order of the sections
will change depending on what effects are assigned in the Spider Remote program.

 

Name  FSx Pre Pst EXP
----  --- --- --- ---
AMP
GATE       X
VOL        X   X
WAH        X      WAH
COMP   1       X  CMP
EQ             X
DIST   2   X   X  DST
MOD    3   X   X  MOD
EXP
DLY    4   X   X  DLY
RVRB   5   X   X  RVB

 

Name: Editing section.
FSx:  Foot switch number as it relates to the
      FBV3. When the board is plugged in, these
      numbers show up next to effect icons.
Pre:  Effect is before the amp in the chain.
Pst:  Effect is after the amp in the chain.
EXP:  Expression pedal can be assigned to one
      of six effects. The abbreviations used
      are slightly different than those used
      in the editing sections.

Some good news:
When one of the 'hidden' options is changed from the front panel, it is more often than not
reflected on the Spider Remote panel. For example, changing the Pre/Post parameter for an effect
moves that effect's icon to the proper place in the effects chain.

Also all the hidden options are saved when you Save Tone to Disk or Backup Spider V to Disk.

 

The Solution:
Let's get back to draining the swamp. First, become intimate with the Post Equalization (PEQ) 'effect'.
Line 6 (and guitardad123) did us one solid when they posted this video:

 

Watch it. Twice.  Setting +7db of boost on the proper PEQ frequencies gets us started on putting
some guts into that lone 12.

 

Next, in the 'Drives and Dynamics' type panel, find the 'Boost + EQ' effect. I usually put it
into the FS2 (DIST) slot as labeled by the FBV3. (IMHO, if you're playing out, having an FBV
really isn't optional.) Start by setting everything in the B+EQ effect to max. Then, depending on the amp
model and other effects, back off either volume or frequency bands until you get the sound you want.
I've put the B+EQ both pre and post and can't tell the difference. Perhaps someone with a better grasp
(or ear) than me can tell me which way is best.

 

Some bad news:
The major downside to this approach is you 'lose' one of the 3 assignable effect slots. If you really
need all 3 effects, I suppose you could try setting frequency gains in the PEQ to +12db. I haven't tried
that because 2 effects plus reverb is enough for me.

 

Conclusion:
I have not needed to run the master volume past 12 o'clock yet because that is Seriously Loud!
Also, the amp models sound really robust, not like the lackluster non-EQed stock settings.
Final bonus, I saved a few shekels in the process.

 

[lumper]

Im going to try this tomorrow when I try to set my patches up again.

 

I use three fx, I like having the dist then a little chorus that I toggle on and off, depending on what im doing, and then a little delay for solo's.

So I suppose I could not use the chorus, Ill have to experiment.

 

I have the fbv shortboard very similar to the fbv3 I think it has one less button, and isnt color coded.

 

[xutrah]

UPDATE
I'm finding the volume boost provided by the Boost+EQ (BEQ) effect to sound harsher
and have more noise (hiss) than I prefer. So, I've changed to pushing the built-in PEQ
as far as possible first (e.g. +12db lo shelf, +10db lomid, +10db himid, +8db hi shelf) then
setting the BEQ gain to max and backing off the freq bands far enough to eliminate noise
and harshness.

 

Haven't played the new settings out yet, but I'm optimistic!

 

lumper:
I had the FBV1, it works, but I got tired of the messed up tuner display.

 

I set up my tones the same way L6 does some of their built ins. Start with a "baseline" tone (amp/cab/eq).
Save it in a bank as say "Clean". Take the same baseline add effects (e.g. dist) and save it in
the same bank as say "Lead". The bottom buttons on the FBV are easier for me to find quickly as well.

COOL TWEAK
In the Spider V Remote program, when you choose the "Export Tone from Spider V 120" under the
"Load/Save" button, the tone is saved as a file with the name of the tone and a ".svl6p" extension (in Windoze).

The nifty thing is, its just a formatted text file. That means you can export the tone to disk, change
it using any old editor, and import the modified tone.

 

The file format may seem a little daunting at first but it really quite simple. It is a bunch
of grouped "Name:Value" pairs. For example, here is a tone group that sets up a "Meza" amp and cab:

 

  "tone" : {
   "amp" : {
    "@model" : "TreadplateDual",
    "@volume" : 1.0,
    "Bass" : 0.40,
    "Gain" : 0.05,
    "Mid" : 0.50,
    "Presence" : 0.90,
    "Treble" : 0.40
   },
   "cab" : {
    "@mic" : 3,
    "@model" : "4x12TreadplateStudio",
    "Level" : 0.0
   },

 

Note the "Mid" Name/Value pair. It is setting the Mid tone control for the amplifier at the 12 o'clock
position, or half (0.5) way.

 

If you are careful to change only Values (right hand side of the colon) in the file, you'll have no problems.

 

Now, the bad news is that what the Value associated with a Name in the export file is actually controlling  
may not be intuitively obvious. The PEQ effect is probably the worst offender. Here is the relationship
between what the Remote program is showing and its associated Name in the export file:

Remote         File
------         ----
Lo Shelf Freq  Low
Lo Shelf Gain  gain
Lo Mid Freq    LMid
Lo Mid Gain    gain.1
Hi Mid Freq    HMid
Hi Mid Gain    Gain
Hi Shelf Freq  Hi
Hi Shelf Gain  gain.2

 

The "cab" group is also a bit confusing. Remember normally the cabinet can only be set from the front panel on the amp.

Panel          File
-----          ----
Mic            mic (0=57Straight 1=57Angled 2=421 3=67)
Cab            @model
Early Reflect  Level

 

Another gem: Early Reflect is how far away the microphone is from the cab in a hard surface empty room. A value of
0.0 is in the speaker cone; 20.0 adds a nice lushness to any reverb you already have dialed in.

 

CAVEAT

The format of the ".svl6p" file is strictly under L6's control so can change at any time. In practical terms however, they have a

vested interest in keeping backwards compatibility so the likely hood of it changing between firmware updates is relatively low.

 

[xutrah]

UPDATE
I recently installed the new Mark II upgrade to my Spider V and the associated Spider V Remote program for Windows. Both installations were completed without incident. I did not do a factory reset on the Spider so all the presets I developed remained in place.

 

Good News

I was looking forward to testing out the new "Classic" speaker mode and was pleased with the results.  To my ear, the new mode (or the old way of doing things) sounds much throatier; it has more guts that I suspect will "cut the mix" even better. I found it mildly surprising that there was no appreciable change in the volume level between the two modes.

 

New Speaker Mode Setup

In the Spider V Remote program, if not already displayed, open the setting selection panel by clicking the ">>" button. Click the "AMP" tab, then select the setting to modify. To change the Speaker mode, in the right panel, click the "Amp" button in the effects chain for the selected setting. Now click the "Cab" button to the right of the name. The third option is "Speaker" which can be set to either "Full Range" (with tweeter) or "Classic" (without tweeter).

 

Bad News
If you have been using the above method to modify Spider settings, you will discover that your chosen "Speaker" mode is not saved in the exported file! The only time the "Speaker" mode is saved to your computer is when the "Backup" option (bottom of the left panel) is selected and all settings are written to a backup file (with file extension ".svl6a" on Windows). A backup file cannot be easily edited because it is compressed.

 

The Workaround
Until Line 6 fixes this issue by including the "Speaker" mode option in an export file, you can easily add it in yourself. Select the setting you wish to save, then click the "Export" button in the top right of the left panel. The setting is saved to a file with the name of the setting (and file extension ".svl6p" on Windows). Manually edit the exported file to include the missing "@speakermode" option. A value of "true" means "Full Range" and "false" means "Classic".

 

For a "Classic" speaker mode in a setting:

   "global" : {
    "@pedal2assign" : false,
    "@speakermode" : false,
    "@tempo" : 132.0,
    "@tweakgroup" : "fx2",
    "@tweakmax" : 0.70,
    "@tweakmin" : 0.10,
    "@tweakparam" : "@mix"
   },

Of course, you can also simply edit an existing exported settings file to include the new "@speakermode" parameter.