high CPU usage with Native

[Doug6String]

When I use Native, my CPU usage for each instance of Native on a track uses 20-25% of my system resources. I have two guitar parts in a song that I double tracked, so I have 4 instances on Native engaged on 4 tracks with nothing else in the song yet. This uses nearly 100% of my system resources and leads to jerkiness during playback. I know I can render (or whatever term your DAW uses) these tracks and that eliminates this issue, and I can "unrender" the tracks if I decide to change Native. But I am wondering if others have a similar experience. I'm probably going to get 32 GB of RAM, which I think will help.

 

When not using Native, I have had 30-40 tracks including 3 tracks with Superior Drummer 3 and only use 10-15% of my resources.

 

Anyone else experiencing this?

 

Thanks - Doug

 

PC, Windows 10, 16 GB RAM, SSD and HD, i7, 7700, 4.6 GHz processor, 64bit, Studio One 3 DAW, Studio 192 audio interface

[Rewolf48]

Nothing like that; mine struggles a bit with 4 instances and some bridged tape saturation and reverbs but it is only an older i3 with 4G ram and hybrid HDD. And there are some Windows updates that keep failing which it keeps insisting on trying to install.

 

Is the workload being distributed across multiple cores or is everything running as a single thread? Are you running a 64 bit version of everything?

 

Freezing is a good idea anyway as it forces you to make a decision about a sound and try to work with it

[Doug6String]

Nothing like that; mine struggles a bit with 4 instances and some bridged tape saturation and reverbs but it is only an older i3 with 4G ram and hybrid HDD. And there are some Windows updates that keep failing which it keeps insisting on trying to install.

 

Is the workload being distributed across multiple cores or is everything running as a single thread? Are you running a 64 bit version of everything?

 

Freezing is a good idea anyway as it forces you to make a decision about a sound and try to work with it

I should have added I am running 64 bit and vst3 for Native.  I have 4 cores running so I assume it's running across 4 cores, which is preferred over a single thread.  While only one data point other than me, since you don't seem to have the same issue, I'm thinking there's something not set right for me.  I have done a lot of reading over the years on optimizing a PC for DAW use and I thought I covered everything, but I'll take another look.   Thanks!

[fr0sty]

Any particular reason you run a unique instance of native for each track?  You could run multiple tracks through one instance of native rather than one track on each channel.

[Doug6String]

Any particular reason you run a unique instance of native for each track?  You could run multiple tracks through one instance of native rather than one track on each channel.

I assume if you're using different presets on each track you have to have Native running on each track.  If I can have just one instance of Native in a song, that would obviously be great.  I just looked at the manual and did a search online and I don't see anything addressing this.  Can you elaborate or point me to how to do this?  Thanks!

[fr0sty]

Attached is a patch that allows panning of multiple guitar tracks using a single patch.  You could switch out one of the amp models to a different one, but in this patch I used the same amp.  For this to work I had to hard pan each of my recorded tracks, hard pan the "split" part of the patch that splits the signal to each amp, and the final part that controls how hard each track is panned is the merge block.  You can choose how much to pan each side of the signal chain by adjusting the panning in the merge block.

 

Page 25 in the manual talks about it.  

 

Discrete Stereo Processing with Amps As mentioned in "Block Order and Stereo Imaging" on page 23, each path within the plug-in is capable of processing discrete left & right audio input on a stereo Audio, Aux or Bus track, provided you're utilizing all stereo blocks on the plug-in's signal paths. But if you're wanting to utilize any Amp or Preamp blocks (which are all mono-output blocks), it is necessary to split the path to allow the left & right audio channels to be processed discretely. Start with the AUX: DiscreteDuo preset provided within the factory TEMPLATES/ OTHER setlist. This preset already has all necessary routing configured for discrete stereo using an amp on each path. To follow are the key settings for this signal flow. 1. A Split Y type block is used with its Balance A & B parameters panned hard left and right. 2. The Merge block's Pan A & B parameters are set hard left and right, respectively, to also keep the two channels' audio discretely separate. 3. The Path 1 Output block is fed to Path 2A, allowing additional stereo effects blocks to be applied. Split Y block Path 1A (with mono blocks) Merge block Path 2A (with stereo blocks) Path 1B (with mono blocks) In this configuration, Path 1A of the split path will process only the left signal, and the Path 1B will process only the right signal, allowing you to add mono blocks on each of these parallel paths accordingly. By placing stereo blocks on Path 2, it will still retain the left/right channel separation, allowing you to use common effects to save some resources.

[Rewolf48]

I don't know that changing from two Native instances each running a relatively simple patch to a single instance running a much more complex double path patch is going to save much CPU, and it will be a lot more complex to set-up in the DAW.

Unless you are doing real-time control I would suggest Freezing tracks (rendering with option of returning to pre-render state) - this can include automation.

 

I did do a little bit of googling and discovered that the problem is likely to be Studio One: there are a few threads about very high CPU usage with VST, in one example a user tested using Perfect Drums on a two bar loop and on the same PC: Studio One and Cubase were at 100% CPU (all cores), Logic was at 75% of just a single core and Reaper was only 1.09%.

 

This can explain why my toy laptop using Reaper can run more than your high spec laptop using Studio One. It is all about how the DAW instantiates the VST and communicates with it - Reaper is obviously coded very efficiently while this aspect leaves something to be desired for Studio One and Cubase. I am not going to suggest changing DAW as that is your choice but there are a few suggestions on this thread such as tweaking buffer sizes that may help you (before it all breaks down into fanboy bickering):

 

 

https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=24534

[Doug6String]

I don't know that changing from two Native instances each running a relatively simple patch to a single instance running a much more complex double path patch is going to save much CPU, and it will be a lot more complex to set-up in the DAW.

Unless you are doing real-time control I would suggest Freezing tracks (rendering with option of returning to pre-render state) - this can include automation.

 

I did do a little bit of googling and discovered that the problem is likely to be Studio One: there are a few threads about very high CPU usage with VST, in one example a user tested using Perfect Drums on a two bar loop and on the same PC: Studio One and Cubase were at 100% CPU (all cores), Logic was at 75% of just a single core and Reaper was only 1.09%.

 

This can explain why my toy laptop using Reaper can run more than your high spec laptop using Studio One. It is all about how the DAW instantiates the VST and communicates with it - Reaper is obviously coded very efficiently while this aspect leaves something to be desired for Studio One and Cubase. I am not going to suggest changing DAW as that is your choice but there are a few suggestions on this thread such as tweaking buffer sizes that may help you (before it all breaks down into fanboy bickering):

 

 

https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=24534

Thanks.  And if Fr0sty is reading, thank you too.  I actually did search and try to find info but the Presonus thread escaped me.  It's great you took the time.  And after reading that thread, once again I am thrilled to be part of this Forum and the Helix Forum!  This really does make it clear that it is not Native.  I know all the tricks and workarounds and I can live with that because I really like Studio One.  And the easiest thing is to render with the option of reversal, which I do when necessary.  Again, thanks to you and the others for taking the time to help!

[Lachdanan0121]

I just want to add that I have an I7 5820k (6 cores OC'd to 3.75ghz) - 16GB of DDR4 in quad channel - 1TB SSD. Windows 10 using the Helix rack as my audio interface.  I built my PC myself so I did make sure to use quality parts!

 

I run FL STudio as my DAW.  

 

In a full project that is almost done, I can use it multiple instances of Helix Native for both Left rhythm guitar, and Right rhythm guitar, Bass Guitar, and Lead Guitar. Four different instances on a full project, and it can keep my "cpu usage" in my DAW at around 30-65%.  That same project without Helix Native at all took up around 25-50%.  The actual CPU usage in the task manager will be even less still.  What is reported inside the DAW (if it does have an internal "cpu meter" ) will usually be higher than the actual CPU usage in the task manager.  Just wanted to throw that out there for context, for anyone else who might read this thread.

[fr0sty]

I use fl studio as well! :)

[Lachdanan0121]

I use fl studio as well! :)

Oh, its beyond fantastic! Its the only DAW that gives me the flexibility to work within my workflow whether its direct/focused, or experimentation... whether its linear, or not!

The devs are constantly improving it. It also has some pretty grand trajectories planned for its next release FLS 20! All for free to us registered users.  ;)

 

 

To the OP:

Studio One, and Cubase are great in their ways too. Honestly those are the only other 2 premium DAWs that I would consider other than FL. I have even demo'd a few of the other "popular" options as well. 

If your Devs are open to discussion on the forums of the Presonus site, you could bring this up to them. May end up helping them track something down.  Though if I am being completely honest Louisiana boys are pretty stubborn to deal with. I know because I have lived here most of my life, (can't wait to get out) but this is also where Presonus is headquartered.  I haven't dealt with them any, but hopefully they are more reasonable than most around these parts. lol  :lol: Seriously it wouldn't hurt to bring it up on their forums as well.

[Doug6String]

Oh, its beyond fantastic! Its the only DAW that gives me the flexibility to work within my workflow whether its direct/focused, or experimentation... whether its linear, or not!

The devs are constantly improving it. It also has some pretty grand trajectories planned for its next release FLS 20! All for free to us registered users.  ;)

 

 

To the OP:

Studio One, and Cubase are great in their ways too. Honestly those are the only other 2 premium DAWs that I would consider other than FL. I have even demo'd a few of the other "popular" options as well. 

If your Devs are open to discussion on the forums of the Presonus site, you could bring this up to them. May end up helping them track something down.  Though if I am being completely honest Louisiana boys are pretty stubborn to deal with. I know because I have lived here most of my life, (can't wait to get out) but this is also where Presonus is headquartered.  I haven't dealt with them any, but hopefully they are more reasonable than most around these parts. lol  :lol: Seriously it wouldn't hurt to bring it up on their forums as well.

I'm glad I could serve as a vehicle for you and Fr0sty to bond over FL Studio!  :D  Earlier this year I switched from another DAW I used for a decade to Studio One because of Native glitches that DaW acknowledged!  Wasn't that a smooth move!  I actually like S1 a lot and will use the workarounds.  Thanks for the help (and entertainment).