Helix CC Toggle between snapshots?

[Jive_Turkey]

Posted this on TGP but thought I would throw caution to the wind and post on the actual official forum 

I am attempting to toggle between snapshots with a single footswitch while in stomp mode. I have a midi patch cable from midi out to midi in on the Helix. In the command center; I am setting FS7 to CC toggle between snapshot 1 and snapshot 4. It will work; but I have to hit it multiple times for it to switch correctly and the LED is right about 25% of the time.

Midi CC in the command center works for this task, as long as I want to hold down FS7 to stay on snap 4 then release to go back. Which I'd like to avoid if possible.

What obvious thing am I missing? Something in system midi settings? Is this not currently possible? Thanks to anyone who can point me in the right direction. Or tell me that I'm currently out of luck :)

[soundog]

...not certain this is the case, but worth an experiment if you have a spare MIDI cable. In similar situations (using MIDI OUT to MIDI IN on the same device), removing one of the ground pins (on the MIDI IN end of the MIDI cable) fixed odd data problems. This occurred in enough situations that I keep the ground-snipped MIDI cable handy. Ground is pin 2 (middle pin).

[phil_m]

I think the issue is what happens with these MIDI CC Toggle and MIDI CC commands when changing snapshots. When you change snapshots, the toggle state that is saved in the snaphot you're switching to is sent out with the snapshot change, and for MIDI CC commands, the value that's saved with that CC in the snapshot is sent out. This is actually helpful for controlling external gear, because it means that stuff behaves almost like it's part of the Helix. The sorts of parameters you would typically control with CCs automatically follow your snapshots. It's trickier when doing what you're trying to do.

 

With the CC Toggle, I think you have to be careful you're causing something of a feedback loop. The value of the toggle switch is saved with the snapshot, and if that's misaligned, it can cause a situation where as soon as it loads the new snapshot, it fires a command that sends you back to the one you were coming from. It's doable, I think, but you just have to be mindful of the toggle states in each snapshot.

 

With the straight CC command, the biggest thing is you can save a different value for that footswitch in every snapshot. Again, though, the problem with that is that the value is shot out when the snapshot is loaded. So in your case if in Snapshot 1, you have CC69, val 3 programmed, and in Snapshot 4, you have CC69, val 0, as soon as you load the new snapshot the command is shot out that shoots you back to the original snapshot. I don't really know of a good workaround for this one other than setting up a separate footswitch for each snapshot, but that is probably a dealbreaker.

[Jive_Turkey]

14 minutes ago, phil_m said:

I think the issue is what happens with these MIDI CC Toggle and MIDI CC commands when changing snapshots. When you change snapshots, the toggle state that is saved in the snaphot you're switching to is sent out with the snapshot change, and for MIDI CC commands, the value that's saved with that CC in the snapshot is sent out. This is actually helpful for controlling external gear, because it means that stuff behaves almost like it's part of the Helix. The sorts of parameters you would typically control with CCs automatically follow your snapshots. It's trickier when doing what you're trying to do.

 

With the CC Toggle, I think you have to be careful you're causing something of a feedback loop. The value of the toggle switch is saved with the snapshot, and if that's misaligned, it can cause a situation where as soon as it loads the new snapshot, it fires a command that sends you back to the one you were coming from. It's doable, I think, but you just have to be mindful of the toggle states in each snapshot.

 

With the straight CC command, the biggest thing is you can save a different value for that footswitch in every snapshot. Again, though, the problem with that is that the value is shot out when the snapshot is loaded. So in your case if in Snapshot 1, you have CC69, val 3 programmed, and in Snapshot 4, you have CC69, val 0, as soon as you load the new snapshot the command is shot out that shoots you back to the original snapshot. I don't really know of a good workaround for this one other than setting up a separate footswitch for each snapshot, but that is probably a dealbreaker.

Thanks Phil. Dumb question 2(million) though...are command center settings global? Meaning the way I configure FS7 while in snapshot 1 of preset 00 is the way FS7 will work all the time? If not, I could theoretically reverse that configuration in snapshot 4 and it should work. Maybe :)

[Jive_Turkey]

Self tested my theory and was unsurprised to find it not able to work. No biggie.  I think a couple people from tgp have an idea scale request for switching of this nature. I'll dig it up and give it an upvote. It's not a deal-breaker and the Helix is sounding really really good for me. It's just nice to ride one button for most of my set as opposed to making my way around the foot switches. Again no biggie and thank you for the replies.

[phil_m]

1 hour ago, Jive_Turkey said:

Thanks Phil. Dumb question 2(million) though...are command center settings global? Meaning the way I configure FS7 while in snapshot 1 of preset 00 is the way FS7 will work all the time? If not, I could theoretically reverse that configuration in snapshot 4 and it should work. Maybe :)

 

The dim and lit values for the CC Toggle command apply to the whole preset, and can't be set different on a snapshot per snapshot basis.

 

After playing around with this a little, I do see that it gets mixed up after the first few changes. I'm not sure I understand why it's happening, but it's something to with the value being sent after the snapshot change happens, I gather. The states remain fine without the MIDI cable connected.

[Jive_Turkey]

Upvote this suggestion right here:

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Snapshot-Return-Mode/869549-23508

[Jive_Turkey]

2 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

The dim and lit values for the CC Toggle command apply to the whole preset, and can't be set different on a snapshot per snapshot basis.

 

After playing around with this a little, I do see that it gets mixed up after the first few changes. I'm not sure I understand why it's happening, but it's something to with the value being sent after the snapshot change happens, I gather. The states remain fine without the MIDI cable connected.

I know I'm trying to do something funky and trick the Helix into bending to my will LOL :) Nothing new to see here