Preset tweaking help, struggling with 2 sounds

[themetallikid]

Ok, so I've got some of the best tones I've ever had, however, I'm struggling with 2 of my sounds, and the lead versions of a maybe 3-4 of them.  

 

Quick background, I run in 8 preset mode, with the bottom row as 4 rhythm, top row as the 'Lead' equivalent of that preset.  Bank 1 would be Clean/Gritty/Classic/Crunch on the bottom, then Clean Lead, Gritty Lead etc on the top.  

 

In addition to the Clean/Gritty/Classic/Crunch...I also have sounds named High Gain Crunch/Modern/Hard Rock/Hard Rock Scoop.  

 

For the most part the rhythms are great, lead versions are just what I am looking for (well...maybe 90%, lol).  The ones I'm struggling with are the High Gain Crunch/Modern presets.  I get a nice percussive/punchy type attack on the Classic/Crunch/Hard Rock presets...but when I get to the HG Crunch and Modern...It seems to be very compressed and even trying to get my 'lead' versions to boost enough and just be an extended version of the rhythms isnt working when I apply the general same principle as the other presets.  

 

I understand that as 'gain' is added it compresses the signal more and you get less dynamics....however, I would think I could combat that in a few ways....so far, not successfully.  I generally do not run any compression on my presets, other than what Jason Sadites does at the end of his presets with the LA Comp just to 'glue' the delays/reverbs together to the signal a bit more before being sent to the board.  When I create my 'Lead' versions of the rhythms, I have a Gain Block after the compressor so its the last thing the signal sees before being output.  I usually have the Gain Block set to +3db, but some presets dip to 2.5, and the more gainier ones are closer to +4.5db because of that compression I was speaking of.  

 

My HG Crunch is just a boosted version of my Crunch preset, and a touch more on the Gain parameter.  I've reduced the 'Sag' to help keep it a bit stiffer and allow for some more punch that way, but it just doesnt seem to be getting me there.  I'd like to keep the same Amp choice if possible as a lot of times I swap between the Crunch/HG Crunch for a dynamics difference during the song...however, there is a character difference there...and I'd like to just keep it a ballsier version of the Crunch preset. 

 

The Modern preset is a different amp, so I may just have to try a different amp to get a different character.  

 

I dont have my Helix available right now, its at the practice place and we are jamming tonight...so I can do some quick edits and see what does the trick......any ideas other than SAG to help bring back some dynamics/punch to the sound.  The IR I'm using is the same 2 IR's, set parallel and adjusted via the level paramenter in the IR Block...so its not a IR issue.

[DunedinDragon]

Gain is a tricky animal especially when used with a compressor.  By definition gain takes away punchiness and definition especially when there's too much of it as it clips the tops of the signal.  There are two specific things you can try to see if it helps (three if you count lowering the gain a bit).  Everyone defines punchiness differently as it's not exactly an objective measurement.  For me it's about having a certain amount of clarity and definition on the strings.  So instead of SAG I'd probably focus more on BIAS and BIAS X to get the string clarity and definition.  Beyond that you could also mess with the mix parameter on the compressor if it's the LA Compressor used in the same way as Jason Sadites uses it to gain back some definition by mixing in some of the uncompressed signal.

[themetallikid]

Yeah basically mimic his settings for that LA Comp, so I can try that.  There's really 2 issues I'm having, and I think the 2nd issue is a result of the first one as well....

 

 

1) the rhythm presets just don't seem to have the same resonant punchiness/dynamics as the others I've created.  This I will try the bias/bias x controls and see if they give me what I'm looking for....I usually leave those stock, but maybe I have a bit further on the Sag I can adjust as well...if not, then maybe have to find a different amp setup for this....

 

2) My lead versions of the presets in need of help, just can't seem to get them above the rhythm presets enough to come through....I run my gain/volume boost blocks after the compressor so that should be out of the equation.  But thinking this is maybe a result of #1's issue a swell.