HX stomp - cannot select a distortion block ??

[xmortenx]

Hi :)

 

I just got HX stomp and build a patch with a "Mono looper - Us Deluxe NRM/+Cab - La Studio Comp - Stereo Transister Tape - Stereo Double Tank".  However then I wanted to try out a distortion block in front of the amp, but when I selected distortion  "megaphone" was that was pre selected was the only one I could use. No button worked and there was no way to select any other distortion unit. I could not scrooll or search any distortion blocks. I could put any other fx block instead of that block, but could not select a distortion block. 

 

Any Idea´s about whats going on ??? 

 

Building another patch I could select all the available distortion blocks - but not on the first patch 

 

All the best 

Morten :) 

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, xmortenx said:

Hi :)

 

I just got HX stomp and build a patch with a "Mono looper - Us Deluxe NRM/+Cab - La Studio Comp - Stereo Transister Tape - Stereo Double Tank".  However then I wanted to try out a distortion block in front of the amp, but when I selected distortion  "megaphone" was that was pre selected was the only one I could use. No button worked and there was no way to select any other distortion unit. I could not scrooll or search any distortion blocks. I could put any other fx block instead of that block, but could not select a distortion block. 

 

Any Idea´s about whats going on ??? 

 

Building another patch I could select all the available distortion blocks - but not on the first patch 

 

All the best 

Morten :) 

 

Hi Morten,

 

It appears to me that what you describe is a situation where the blocks you have selected to build your patch have used all the available DSP power in you HX Stomp. When you run short of DSP, then various FX and amps cannot be selected and because the Stomp only has one DSP chip you can run out of power really quickly, especially when using stereo blocks. Obviously - stereo uses twice as much processing power as mono, so a quick look at your patch shows some clues. Double Tank reverb is processor intensive and do you really need the Tape Delay in stereo? The US Deluxe Nrm with a cabinet will probably grab about 40% of you chips power before adding anything else,  but you also have a looper in there.

 

A forum user named “Malhavok” has a website where he has worked out how much DSP juice is used by each block in the Helix units. Check it out.

 

http://benvesco.com/store/helix-dsp-allocations/

 

If you recreate your patch using mono versions of the blocks you should be able to add a distortion in front. 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

 

[Kilrahi]

Also, make sure you use the mono version of the LA Studio Comp for your above signal chain. The mono is about 7% DSP usage and the stereo is 14%. 

 

Another good thing to check is that your distortion block was also mono.

 

When I was first using the Stomp, a lot of signal chains I thought weren't possible had to do more with me thinking more grandiose than what I needed and not knowing how the Stomp worked. An amp/cab block sums everything to mono. This means that sticking anything stereo before an amp/cab block is most of the time completely pointless. If you end your signal chain with a stereo block then it starts to introduce stereo, so if I wanted stereo I used it for the final block AND whatever other blocks it was really essential for. Once I knew that, I quit grabbing stereo phasers, stereo compressors, stereo overdrives, and quit chewing up massive amounts of DSP before I even get to my amp block - which then destroyed all of my alleged creativity anyway.

[Smj7]

I came across this phenomenon with the stomp and posted as much in another thread.  Using two amps/cab blocks split left and right chews up a lot of Dsp so I was limited in what I could put before them despite having 4 available blocks left.

 

Im not overly concerned about it... but... I expected (before buying) that if the stomp limits me to six blocks... I could use all six blocks in whatever combination.  

 

I’m not sure I ever read anything to suggest that dsp horsepower would ever be an issue before purchasing the stomp.  In such cases,  it might only be 5 blocks or less.

 

Again, I can deal with it... but would have been nice to know beforehand.  Perhaps that’s my bad... I bought it around Christmas and it hadn’t been out that long.

 

Sean Meredith-Jones

www.seanmeredithjones.com

[datacommando]

2 hours ago, Smj7 said:

I came across this phenomenon with the stomp and posted as much in another thread.  Using two amps/cab blocks split left and right chews up a lot of Dsp so I was limited in what I could put before them despite having 4 available blocks left.

 

Im not overly concerned about it... but... I expected (before buying) that if the stomp limits me to six blocks... I could use all six blocks in whatever combination.  

 

I’m not sure I ever read anything to suggest that dsp horsepower would ever be an issue before purchasing the stomp.  In such cases,  it might only be 5 blocks or less.

 

Again, I can deal with it... but would have been nice to know beforehand.  Perhaps that’s my bad... I bought it around Christmas and it hadn’t been out that long.

 

Sean Meredith-Jones

www.seanmeredithjones.com

 

Hi Sean,

 

Firstly - nice website you have there, sir.

 

O.K. Regarding the DSP “phenomenon”, sadly it’s the nature of the beast. I think that the HX Stomp was aimed at a user wanting to get into the Line 6 HX market but not wanting, or needing, the extra bells and whistles available on the larger LT model or the muscle of the full blown Floor and Rack units. HX Stomp is ideal for a gigging musician who could use it as fly rig they can keep in a pocket. To produce and sell the Stomp at the lower price and the smaller footprint it has meant somethings had to go - i.e. one DSP chip, and a whole bunch of ins and outs etc.

 

You have said that you didn’t recall ever reading “anything to suggest that dsp horsepower would ever be an issue”. Well, it is documented in the Owner’s Manual on page 16  under the subtitle “Dynamic DSP”  and another sub.section headed “Tips to Optimise DSP”. I don’t think the restrictions of using one processor were unknown or hidden away. It’s not unusual for people with Helix Floor units to push them over the edge, especially with processor hungry double amps and complex stereo reverb algorithms.

 

When you take into account what is available from the Stomp, it’s very clever. For instance something like your Strymon Timeline uses the same single DSP chip as your Stomp, but it only does delay fx. It does it very well, but it’s a one trick pony.

 

Regards

 

 

[Kilrahi]

I agree the subtle difference between DSP limits and block limit is easy to miss. I missed it too, and I read up a lot of stuff. It's just not always easy to catch EVERYTHING.

 

It's rare that the DSP runs out before the blocks do, but it does happen. Usually it's the reverse though, I have plenty of DSP available, and my blocks are gone.

 

That's the bummer to me. 

[Smj7]

59 minutes ago, datacommando said:

 

Hi Sean,

 

Firstly - nice website you have there, sir.

 

O.K. Regarding the DSP “phenomenon”, sadly it’s the nature of the beast. I think that the HX Stomp was aimed at a user wanting to get into the Line 6 HX market but not wanting, or needing, the extra bells and whistles available on the larger LT model or the muscle of the full blown Floor and Rack units. HX Stomp is ideal for a gigging musician who could use it as fly rig they can keep in a pocket. To produce and sell the Stomp at the lower price and the smaller footprint it has meant somethings had to go - i.e. one DSP chip, and a whole bunch of ins and outs etc.

 

You have said that you didn’t recall ever reading “anything to suggest that dsp horsepower would ever be an issue”. Well, it is documented in the Owner’s Manual on page 16  under the subtitle “Dynamic DSP”  and another sub.section headed “Tips to Optimise DSP”. I don’t think the restrictions of using one processor were unknown or hidden away. It’s not unusual for people with Helix Floor units to push them over the edge, especially with processor hungry double amps and complex stereo reverb algorithms.

 

When you take into account what is available from the Stomp, it’s very clever. For instance something like your Strymon Timeline uses the same single DSP chip as your Stomp, but it only does delay fx. It does it very well, but it’s a one trick pony.

 

Regards

 

 

I’ll buy that.  I did not read the manual all the way through prior to buying.... so sure, that’s my error.  My grade 7 science instructors words are now more resonant than ever before... “When all else fails... READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!” ... genius.

 

Re... the Timeline vs Hx stomp.  The Timeline is what... at least 8 years old now?  And the Hx Stomp uses the same DSP chip?  Is the price of that same chip the same now as it was 8 years ago?  How much extra could it be to have a faster chip in there?  Perhaps there’s a good explanation.  

 

Sean Meredith-Jones

www.seanmeredithjones.com

[datacommando]

12 hours ago, Smj7 said:

I’ll buy that.  I did not read the manual all the way through prior to buying.... so sure, that’s my error.  My grade 7 science instructors words are now more resonant than ever before... “When all else fails... READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!” ... genius.

 

Re... the Timeline vs Hx stomp.  The Timeline is what... at least 8 years old now?  And the Hx Stomp uses the same DSP chip?  Is the price of that same chip the same now as it was 8 years ago?  How much extra could it be to have a faster chip in there?  Perhaps there’s a good explanation.  

 

Sean Meredith-Jones

www.seanmeredithjones.com

 

Hi again,

 

As I understand it, the point of using the SHARC processor in the Stomp was because it is used in all the other hardware products in the Helix range. The whole idea behind the next firmware upgrade to v2.80 it to unify the Core routines and code used across the HX range. People are already complaining on this forum about the delay in the software release, therefore it shouldn’t be hard to imagine the uproar if Line 6 were developing code to run the same FX, amps etc. using different DSP chips. Ultimately it should be easier to develop one piece of code for all. 

 

Regarding the TimeLine, which AFAIK was released mid 2011, and Helix released 2015 (although it had been in development for many years prior), they are using the same DSP chips, and from discussions that have cropped up on here as to why they are still being used, I think it’s because they do the job particularly well and there aren’t any cheaper alternatives that could be used without a serious re-write of the code - or something like that. I didn’t go searching for the reasons why, but you are welcome to. So, when you say “Perhaps there’s a good explanation“ - yes there is! Seek and ye shall find.

 

EDIT:

Just so you know you are not alone, this thread discusses the limits of DSP in the HX Stomp unit - started in mid November 2018. Although you may be more interested in the final comment made by Digital_Igloo (Line 6 product Manger).

 

https://line6.com/support/topic/37291-hx-stomp-discoveries-and-disappointments-blocksand-surprises-my-experience/#comment-272872

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by datacommando
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