External Amp Control - SOS

[RuneA]

Hi!
I've got a Line6 Helix and a Peavey 5150II. I've been reading forums and viewing videos on Youtube about external amp control through the Helix and I became very optimistic about my options with the system & amp. I ordered a control cable online and plugged everything up as described in the online turtorials. However, it simply Does. Not. Work. Now, I'm PRETTY sure my Helix settings are a-ok and I would be suprised if the guys who made my cable screwed up the soldering (they've made cables like this for TC Electrionics GMajor, ENGL, and so on), so here we go.
Yes, I'm aware that I will only be able to run 2 channels on the amp, and thats ok. That's all I need. But now the amp and the Helix simply does not speak the same languange. The amp seem to change channel on a random base (if at all) and whenever I seem to have it locked down, next time I click on a switch, it's all messed up.

I'm looking for anyone who have been able to control their Peavey 5150II or 6505+ to set me on the right course here. 
Now the Helix is just an over-priced effect pedal. If I can make this work, I'll be pretty much set with any option whether it is live, rehearsal or recording. So, yeah... so percentage of desperation is pretty high. Hence the S.O.S.

[rd2rk]

It would be helpful if you included a sample preset so we can see exactly how you're trying to use Helix to control your over-priced antique tube amp......

[RuneA]

"over-priced antique tube amp......"    LOL (litterally). 

 

[codamedia]

2 hours ago, RuneA said:

"over-priced antique tube amp......"    LOL (litterally). 

 

In fairness, you called a Helix an over priced effects pedal in your OP :)  

When you make a snide remark, be prepared to take a snide remark in return. 

 

Now let's try and solve this problem you have! 

 

What control cable did you buy, and did you test it to know that it works as you are expecting it to. 

• The amp end must obviously be a DIN for use in a 5150II.
• The helix end must be a TRS
• With the CABLE ALONE.... do these tests (leave the Helix out of this for now)
  • Short TIP to SLEEVE and see what the amp does... make note of it.
  • Shot RING to SLEEVE and see what the amp does.... make note of it.

Report back here with your findings and we should be able to help you from there. 

 

[RuneA]

Actually I didn't. I said the way I'm using it now - as opposed to how I want to use it - it only works as a over priced effect pedal  :D
It's not dissing the Helix. It is actually an indirect diss of the user (me) who can't utilize it properly and make use of all the possibilities it offers.
If I get the amp control up and running, I can use it for absolutely everything I want.

I'll try shortening it as described. I cannot rule out the manufacturer of the cable may have gotten the wires crossed. 

PS! Sorry for the late reply but there seem to be some virus-thing going on atm that won't let us rehearse as usual....

[rd2rk]

It would also be helpful, when you post the results of the steps that @codamedia suggested, that you also post your Helix preset.

I'm sure that you're sure you've got it right, but trust me, we've seen that before.

[RuneA]

On 9/3/2020 at 1:32 PM, codamedia said:

 

In fairness, you called a Helix an over priced effects pedal in your OP :)  

When you make a snide remark, be prepared to take a snide remark in return. 

 

Now let's try and solve this problem you have! 

 

What control cable did you buy, and did you test it to know that it works as you are expecting it to. 

• The amp end must obviously be a DIN for use in a 5150II.
• The helix end must be a TRS
• With the CABLE ALONE.... do these tests (leave the Helix out of this for now)
  • Short TIP to SLEEVE and see what the amp does... make note of it.
  • Shot RING to SLEEVE and see what the amp does.... make note of it.

Report back here with your findings and we should be able to help you from there. 

 

So, I shorted the plug on the control cable sleeve to tip and the amp changes channel. Sleeve to ring and it does nothing. As it should. So far so good.

Set-up:
I'm running the amp on 2 Channels, Ch1 is clean and Ch2 is distortion. 4CM is up and running as it should with a couple of standard effects both before and after the Send/Return block. Chrunch mode is off and Channel Switch mode is on.
I've set up a simple patch with 4 Snapshots on buttons 7 to 10. 7-Dry Dist, 8-Lead Dist, 9-Dry Clean and 10-Clean FX. 
For 7 and 8 I'm using the amp pre-amp Ch2 and for 9 I'm using Ch1. For 10 I'm using an amp-sim and with the Send/Return block disabeled.
7 and 8 are set to Tip while 9 is set to None (I also tried Ring but didn't notice any difference).
Global Settings are Ext Amp, Instant 1 and Latched.

So, here's where the fun starts. If I move from 7 to 8 all is good. Also from 7 and 8 into 9 or 10 works as a charm (same goes for 10 to 9). But if I go from 8 to 7, it changes from Ch2 to Ch1. If I then go back to 8, the amp remains at Ch1 instead of switching to Ch2. In order to get into Ch2 I then need to go by either 9 or 10 and then back to either 7 or 8. So a bit of tap/river-dance there for you.
Now, I don't know how the Hellix simulate the on/off switch on the Peavy foot switch, but I suspect there is a "misunderstanding" going on here and I'm not sure if it is because of any setting I've made or haven't made.

 

[rd2rk]

2 hours ago, RuneA said:

So, I shorted the plug on the control cable sleeve to tip and the amp changes channel. Sleeve to ring and it does nothing. As it should. So far so good.

Set-up:
I'm running the amp on 2 Channels, Ch1 is clean and Ch2 is distortion. 4CM is up and running as it should with a couple of standard effects both before and after the Send/Return block. Chrunch mode is off and Channel Switch mode is on.
I've set up a simple patch with 4 Snapshots on buttons 7 to 10. 7-Dry Dist, 8-Lead Dist, 9-Dry Clean and 10-Clean FX. 
For 7 and 8 I'm using the amp pre-amp Ch2 and for 9 I'm using Ch1. For 10 I'm using an amp-sim and with the Send/Return block disabeled.
7 and 8 are set to Tip while 9 is set to None (I also tried Ring but didn't notice any difference).
Global Settings are Ext Amp, Instant 1 and Latched.

So, here's where the fun starts. If I move from 7 to 8 all is good. Also from 7 and 8 into 9 or 10 works as a charm (same goes for 10 to 9). But if I go from 8 to 7, it changes from Ch2 to Ch1. If I then go back to 8, the amp remains at Ch1 instead of switching to Ch2. In order to get into Ch2 I then need to go by either 9 or 10 and then back to either 7 or 8. So a bit of tap/river-dance there for you.
Now, I don't know how the Hellix simulate the on/off switch on the Peavy foot switch, but I suspect there is a "misunderstanding" going on here and I'm not sure if it is because of any setting I've made or haven't made.

 

 

Exactly what cable are you using? You said it's a custom cable? With a two channel amp you shouldn't need anything more than a TRS, but I noticed in the manual that the stock footswitch also has switching for rhythm/crunch, and a multi-pin connector, so knowing the specifics of a custom cable could be useful. Did it come with a pin-out?

 

Also, you STILL haven't posted the preset so we can troubleshoot the problem properly.

[codamedia]

22 hours ago, RuneA said:

So, here's where the fun starts. If I move from 7 to 8 all is good. Also from 7 and 8 into 9 or 10 works as a charm (same goes for 10 to 9). But if I go from 8 to 7, it changes from Ch2 to Ch1. If I then go back to 8, the amp remains at Ch1 instead of switching to Ch2. In order to get into Ch2 I then need to go by either 9 or 10 and then back to either 7 or 8. So a bit of tap/river-dance there for you.

Now, I don't know how the Hellix simulate the on/off switch on the Peavy foot switch

 

A standard Peavey switch (not counting Vypers, and maybe a few others) the switches are a basic latch. If the proper pin is shorted, the amp moves to a new channel.... when it isn't shorted it returns to the other channel. Repeat for reverb, loop on/off, chorus, phase, boost, etc... etc... (this is dependent on how the amp is setup)

 

Please bare with me.... I don't use channel switching on the Helix so I can only suggest what to look for.

 

When you assign the channel switch.... can you explicitly say "send an OPEN" or "send a CLOSED" signal? If so, that needs to be set depending on the channel you want. If it is just toggling between an open and closed switch every time it is invoked, that is when you get the behavior you are describing. EG: You're on the right channel already, but it changes channels when you change the preset/snapshot. 

[RuneA]

On 6/17/2021 at 6:26 PM, rd2rk said:

 

Exactly what cable are you using? You said it's a custom cable? With a two channel amp you shouldn't need anything more than a TRS, but I noticed in the manual that the stock footswitch also has switching for rhythm/crunch, and a multi-pin connector, so knowing the specifics of a custom cable could be useful. Did it come with a pin-out?

 

Also, you STILL haven't posted the preset so we can troubleshoot the problem properly.

It is a TRS to PIN cable produced by Best-Tronics for a Peavey 5150II (Best-Tronics Mfg., Inc. > G-Major > P6505PGMAJ-XX (btpa.com))
But I don't think the pre-set matters much. I haven't really bothered to set up much of a preset anyway, since the channel switching isn't working properly yet. It's only a simple 4 Snapshot block chain, including and a Send/Return block as described above. I strongly believe is a global setting issue since I'm attempting to change channel by switching between Snapshots.

[RuneA]

On 6/18/2021 at 2:33 PM, codamedia said:

 

A standard Peavey switch (not counting Vypers, and maybe a few others) the switches are a basic latch. If the proper pin is shorted, the amp moves to a new channel.... when it isn't shorted it returns to the other channel. Repeat for reverb, loop on/off, chorus, phase, boost, etc... etc... (this is dependent on how the amp is setup)

 

Please bare with me.... I don't use channel switching on the Helix so I can only suggest what to look for.

 

When you assign the channel switch.... can you explicitly say "send an OPEN" or "send a CLOSED" signal? If so, that needs to be set depending on the channel you want. If it is just toggling between an open and closed switch every time it is invoked, that is when you get the behavior you are describing. EG: You're on the right channel already, but it changes channels when you change the preset/snapshot. 

I think you're on to something here. I suspect you are right about the "invokation". I need to check into this and I'll get back to you when I've dug into the open/closed issue.
None of the tutorials I've used for this set-up is really for a Peavey but for TRS-controlled amps (as opposed to the PIN-controlled Peavey), and those might respond slightly different than a Peavey.