HX Stomp - volume varies with OD stomp boxes

[sinlimo]

I use the HX Stomp instead of a bunch of stomp boxes, running into a clean Quilter amp. (So my patches don't use any amp/cab sims)

 

I really like the tones I'm getting! 

 

However, I've noticed when activating the OD stomp, there can be a noticable difference in volume, and it's very random.

 

For instance, I have a pedal patch that uses the Hedgehog D9. I initially set the volume so when I activate the Hedgehog I get a nice OD with a little volume boost. Nice, just the way I like!

 

But when I came back to the exact patch the next day and step on the Hedgehog, there's a noticeable drop in volume when the Hedgehog is activated! No other settings have been touched, same guitar, same rig...I know sometimes my ears can play tricks on me but this is a noticable difference that isn't any trick of the ear.

 

So, I'll then adjust the Hedgehog level so it sits in the mix like I want and save the patch... come back some random day later in the week and now the Hedgehog is way too loud.

 

This happens with other OD pedals such as Compulsive Drive, where I've set the gain somewhat high. 

 

I've had other Helix products before the Stomp (Helix LT, Helix Floor) and never had this issue on any patches.

 

Any thoughts??

[Schmalle]

Guitar volume, tone, split pickup and loose connection come to mind as possible causes.

[sinlimo]

On 10/18/2020 at 11:19 AM, Schmalle said:

Guitar volume, tone, split pickup and loose connection come to mind as possible causes.

Thanks Schmalle,

 

My guitar volume is a consistent 10, and I think if there were pickup issues or loose connections (but I'll double check them), I would notice the issue with any of the effects blocks. The issue I'm noticing only occurs with a high distortion effect block. I use lighter/milder OD blocks in the same chain and do not notice this issue with OD effects using light gain.

[Schmalle]

No idea, but if you post a patch we might further investigate. Which mode do you use? Stomp, scroll, preset, snapshot?

[sinlimo]

Thank you!! How do I post a patch?

 

And I use the Stomp in stomp mode exclusively.

[Schmalle]

6 hours ago, sinlimo said:

Thank you!! How do I post a patch?

Export the patch in HX Edit and attach the file here in a post.

[sinlimo]

Generic Pedal.hlxGeneric Pedal 21.hlx

[sinlimo]

First time doing this, so please let me know if I did it correctly.

 

In these two examples, the OD pedals causing the volume issue are the Hedgehog D9 in the "Generic Pedal 21" and the Compulsive Drive in the "Generic Pedal" preset. 

 

And yes, I'm hella creative with my patch names. ;)

[DunedinDragon]

What are you using for your output device?  It sounds like there may be an automatically engaged limiter for protection that's kicking in depending on the volume level of the incoming signal.  Worth checking I'd think.

[Schmalle]

I had a look at the patch and could replicate the phenomenon. It's gain staging.

 

The way you have set the distortion is with boosted mids but less bass and treble.

Whether the engaged distortion sounds louder or less loud depends on how close the clean amp is to saturation levels.

The mid scoop of the amp's tone stack will equalize/lower the mid boost of the distortion pedal.

Depending on whether the input stage of the amp gets into saturation it reacts differently to this mid scoop:

• Set it on the edge of breakup and the mids saturation level is lowered, but not the mids volume level.
• Set it clean with headroom and the mids volume level is lowered.

[sinlimo]

7 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

What are you using for your output device?  It sounds like there may be an automatically engaged limiter for protection that's kicking in depending on the volume level of the incoming signal.  Worth checking I'd think.

 

I'm going straight into a Quilter 101 Mini, with the amp gain set to clean.

[sinlimo]

6 hours ago, Schmalle said:

I had a look at the patch and could replicate the phenomenon. It's gain staging.

 

The way you have set the distortion is with boosted mids but less bass and treble.

Whether the engaged distortion sounds louder or less loud depends on how close the clean amp is to saturation levels.

The mid scoop of the amp's tone stack will equalize/lower the mid boost of the distortion pedal.

Depending on whether the input stage of the amp gets into saturation it reacts differently to this mid scoop:

• Set it on the edge of breakup and the mids saturation level is lowered, but not the mids volume level.
• Set it clean with headroom and the mids volume level is lowered.

 

Thanks again Schmalle, I appreciate your help.

 

I'm feeding the Stomp into a Quilter 101 mini that's set to be a very clean platform for the Stomp so the Stomp provides all the dirt, not the amp. And I still can't figure out why some days the volume jumps or dips, when I've made zero changes to any of the other controls...all things being equal, I should experience this issue every time I fire up to jam, but I don't.. it varies and I have no idea why.

[Schmalle]

To communicate my observation as clear as possible: the only thing I had to adjust to replicate the behavior you described was to slightly adjust either the HX volume knob or the amps gain knob.

 

I wish you a successful search!