DSM & Humboldt Simplifier DLX

[danny_naylor]

I’ve seen a couple of topics on how to run the Simplifier Classic with HX Stomp. I’m using Helix LT as my main recording rig and a Simplifier DLX as a silent practice rig but, just for a bit of fun, thought I’d try to integrate the two.

 

This is how I’ve set it up:

 

Guitar > LT Input > [Effects run before amp] > Mono send block > LT Send 1 > Simplifier Input > Simplifier L&R Out > LT Return 1 & 2 > Stereo Return block > LT Delay/Reverb > LT L&R Outs to studio monitors

 

I’ve also tried putting the LT delays and reverbs before the stereo return block. It’s my intention to use the preamp and the cabsim of the Simplifier with the reverb off, us the the LT for both pre and post amp effects and to monitor from the LT.

 

Have I “oversimplified” it? The threads I’ve read all seem to utilise the effects loop of the Simplifier such as:

 

Guitar > HX Input > HX Send > Simplifier Input > Simplifier Send > HX Return L > HX Output L/R > Simplifier Return L/R with an FX Loop block on the HX (presumably  before the HX output) and then monitor through the Simplifier.

 

Am I missing something by not utilising the effects loop of the Simplifier?

[SaschaFranck]

Why would you even use a stereo return for the Simplifier in case you don't use the reverb?

 

1 hour ago, danny_naylor said:

Am I missing something by not utilising the effects loop of the Simplifier?

 

Not that I could think of anything. You'd have to utilize another loop on the Helix as well that way, hence add another DAAD conversion and some latency coming along with it.

[danny_naylor]

27 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

Why would you even use a stereo return for the Simplifier in case you don't use the reverb?

My only reasoning being that I was running both the left and right outs from the Simplifier (because I could).

 

29 minutes ago, SaschaFranck said:

Not that I could think of anything. You'd have to utilize another loop on the Helix as well that way, hence add another DAAD conversion and some latency coming along with it.

Thanks. Makes sense.

[rd2rk]

Disclaimer: I don't own a Simplifier (though I'm tempted), so everything I'm about to say is based on my UNDERSTANDING of what the Simplifier is intended to do, and largely based on the first post in this TGP Thread:

 

(8) Dsm/humboldt Simplifier: A Review | The Gear Page

 

Which is approved of by the designer (also in the thread).

 

The intent of the Simplifier is to reproduce both the SOUND and, more importantly, the FEEL/RESPONSIVENESS of playing directly into one of the three emulated tube preamps, with the advantage of being able to use them in combination with a variety of analog emulated tube power sections. You can't really/practically do that in the real world.

 

As soon as you put a digital device in front of an analog amp, you start to lose that "feel" due to the AD/DA conversions that take place.

So, the BEST way to get 100% of the advantage of the Simplifier over just using the amps in your Helix is to go directly into the input, or use analog pedals between your guitar and the Simplifier. How much "feel" do you lose? Does it matter? Only YOU can determine that, and you should compare going direct (or thru analog pedals) to the simplifier vs using the Helix amps, as that will be (IMO) the most important consideration in where to put the Simplifier in your signal chain.

 

Using Helix POST FX such as Reverbs/Delays AFTER the Simplifier is less important. Anybody who puts a digital delay in an amp's FX Loop is doing the same thing as using the Helix in that capacity. The "feel" part of the equation comes from the amplifier portion. You can quickly determine the relative merits (relative to "feel" vs "sound") of using the Simplifier in a Helix FX Loop vs using a Helix amp by using a FS to toggle the FX Loop ON/Helix amp OFF (Simplifier) or vice versa (Helix amp). Then compare that to going direct into the Simplifier.

Unfortunately, while you can record SOUND, you can't record FEEL.

 

FWIW - I've extensively compared using Helix preamps and amps directly into my (6v6) tube amp's power section, vs using the tube amp's 12ax7 preamp with Helix Post FX in the amp's FX Loop. At my level of playing skill (hack), the difference in "feel" is negligible, but there Is...SOMETHING....

 

Blah blah. All of that said, if I were going to buy a Simplifier, I'd use analog ODs/WAH etc between my guitar and the Simplifier, then put the Helix in the Simplifier's FX Loop for POST FX (delays/reverbs etc). When/if I was thoroughly convinced of the superiority of this method, I'd sell my big-lollipop Helix and replace it with an HXFX, and use the difference to buy another guitar (or 100 analog ODs/Fuzzes etc - RABBIT HOLE!) :-).

 

Oh, I almost forgot. To answer your question, either of the scenarios you described works fine, I don't see any advantage to either. Use the one that sounds best. The only thing I'd add is that the Helix FX Loops add a small amount of noise. Where that noise occurs in your signal chain could have a big effect on the sound,  and where the added latency occurs could have an effect on the "feel". Also, whether the loop is set to INST or LINE will be important. Use what sounds best. Experiment. Have FUN! Annoy the neighbors....

[SaschaFranck]

37 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

So, the BEST way to get 100% of the advantage of the Simplifier over just using the amps in your Helix is to go directly into the input, or use analog pedals between your guitar and the Simplifier.

 

The guy who wrote the review on TGP is using an HXFX in front of the Simplifier, too. So that's every bit the same as what the OP here is doing.

[rd2rk]

My reference to the TGP thread was about the design philosophy of the Simplifier.

What I would do (if I had a Simplifier) is just me, based on my understanding of that.

What works best for any given user is what sounds best to them.

That's why I said to experiment.

I'm currently using analog FX into the front of my tube amp, and Helix Post FX in it's loop.

Sounds fine, but I think I'm going to pick up an analog delay and maybe one of those new springy pedal thingies, just to see what a fully analog chain sounds/feels like.

I also use Helix by itself into a PC212+. Sounds/feels great.

Both rigs work for me, depending on my mood.

What a great time to be a musician!

[danny_naylor]

Thanks for the replies - I really appreciate the input (no pun intended!). I’ll mess about with it over time but it was just one of those moments where you wonder if you’re missing something because what you did seemed “easy”.

 

So long as it sounds ok to my admittedly dodgy ears, I don’t suppose it matters!