Help using Helix as IEM for entire live band monitoring

[Amarasco]

Hello there, 

 

I'm starting to use my Helix floor XLR stereo direct to mixing board for live gigs and I was wondering if I could have some help in using Helix also as IEM instead of using standard wedge speakers. I watched the Richie Castellano video on YouTube and a couple of others but its a totally new topic for me and I'm having a hard time understanding the routing involved between the device and the mixer.

 

Can you please help?

 

Thanks in advance!

[DunedinDragon]

The concept he uses is actually pretty simple and very elegant.  Pay attention to the sends and returns because that's where all the important stuff happens.  In essence he uses a send of his vocals to the mixing board very early in the signal chain before any of his guitar stuff and sends his guitar separately to the mixing board through a separate send.  The creative part is the middle signal path which he demonstrates with the backing track.  That middle signal path would be the return of his audio mix of both guitar, vocal, the rest of the band's channels and, if necessary, a backing track/click track/audio cues coming back through a separate return on the Helix which he uses as his headphone output.  Don't get confused by his use of the phone.  In essence that middle path is just the stage mix that would normally be sent to a floor monitor, but he handles it on the Helix rather than it going to a traditional floor monitor.

An important item to take note of is he doesn't use either of the normal 1/4" or XLR outputs.  The reason for that in his typical setup he's never plugged directly into the mixer.  He plugs into DI boxes for whatever signals he sends to the different channels on the mixing board (vocal and guitar), and he receives his monitor output from the mixer through separate DI boxes with 1/4" line outputs from the Aux outputs of the mixer after the sound tech mixes his signals with the rest of the band.

What makes this video confusing is he spends a lot of time on his guitar rig setup and not much time at all on how his sends and returns work in conjunction with the mixer.  Most of  the real work of mixing his in ear monitor mix comes from the mixer.

[Amarasco]

Thanks for replying, 

 

I'm very confused with what goes to the mixer and what comes back to the Helix and if I have to set a specific path on the Helix patch what would it be?

We don't use backing tracks or click, this is just for me to avoid having a wedge speaker on stage and be able to hear myself along with the entire band.

I'm a total noob on this topic, I apologize!

[DunedinDragon]

On 5/25/2022 at 2:47 PM, Amarasco said:

Thanks for replying, 

 

I'm very confused with what goes to the mixer and what comes back to the Helix and if I have to set a specific path on the Helix patch what would it be?

We don't use backing tracks or click, this is just for me to avoid having a wedge speaker on stage and be able to hear myself along with the entire band.

I'm a total noob on this topic, I apologize!

Both the vocal and the guitar are sent to the mixer on separate sends so they go to different channels on the mixer in a normal fashion where they are mixed with all other channels and sent to the main speakers.  The mixer would also send you your own personalized mix of channels in exactly the same manner as they would send it to a floor monitor, but you'd plug that into a receive input on the Helix as he demonstrated and you use your headphone output to listen on IEMs.

[Amarasco]

On 5/25/2022 at 11:03 PM, DunedinDragon said:

Both the vocal and the guitar are sent to the mixer on separate sends so they go to different channels on the mixer in a normal fashion where they are mixed with all other channels and sent to the main speakers.  The mixer would also send you your own personalized mix of channels in exactly the same manner as they would send it to a floor monitor, but you'd plug that into a receive input on the Helix as he demonstrated and you use your headphone output to listen on IEMs.

It's starting to look more clear now. So just to double check, I just have to normally send my guitar (I don't sing) in stereo through XLR to the mixer and the mixer sends me back my personalized mix as it would be sent to a monitor on stage, but where exactly do I have to plug it, into one of the sends or returns in the back? Also should I add any send/return block into my path or it would work right away without adding blocks or parallel paths to my patch?

[DunedinDragon]

On 5/25/2022 at 9:01 PM, Amarasco said:

It's starting to look more clear now. So just to double check, I just have to normally send my guitar (I don't sing) in stereo through XLR to the mixer and the mixer sends me back my personalized mix as it would be sent to a monitor on stage, but where exactly do I have to plug it, into one of the sends or returns in the back? Also should I add any send/return block into my path or it would work right away without adding blocks or parallel paths to my patch?

Pretty much.  But a couple of qualifiers.  You don't have to send a stereo output via XLR unless you want to.  A lot of sound engineers prefer to only allocate a single channel to guitar and you only get true stereo if you use stereo blocks in your signal chain.  In either case you won't likely be getting a stereo monitor output coming back from the mixer, just a mono 1/4" line.  It does get much simpler if you don't sing as all you'll need is to split off a separate signal chain with a 1/4 receive (as shown in the video you posted) into which you plug in the signal coming back from the mixing board as a normal monitor input which you would monitor through the headphone output.

Quite frankly the biggest risk I see in you attempting this is you have no way of testing it before you take it live unless you have a mixing board of some sort to check it for functionality and make sure you don't create a feedback loop.  That spells disaster in my mind.

[Amarasco]

On 5/26/2022 at 9:59 AM, DunedinDragon said:

Pretty much.  But a couple of qualifiers.  You don't have to send a stereo output via XLR unless you want to.  A lot of sound engineers prefer to only allocate a single channel to guitar and you only get true stereo if you use stereo blocks in your signal chain.  In either case you won't likely be getting a stereo monitor output coming back from the mixer, just a mono 1/4" line.  It does get much simpler if you don't sing as all you'll need is to split off a separate signal chain with a 1/4 receive (as shown in the video you posted) into which you plug in the signal coming back from the mixing board as a normal monitor input which you would monitor through the headphone output.

Quite frankly the biggest risk I see in you attempting this is you have no way of testing it before you take it live unless you have a mixing board of some sort to check it for functionality and make sure you don't create a feedback loop.  That spells disaster in my mind.

 

I'd like it to be stereo cause many of my patches have ambient stuff using stereo blocks etc.. 

 

After your explanation it's starting to make more sense so I watched again the Castellano video and I noticed he has the stereo mix from the mixer in return 1 and 2, should I do the same thing? 

 

Also I don't understand why he splits off the main signal with the "Send/return Send 1" block, it says everything after goes to your ears but that's only guitar, not the entire band/backing tracks; For that he uses another blank signal path.. why doesn't he put everything (guitar mix + band mix) on that path in the middle? Maybe because he wants to EQ (or else) his guitar alone and differently instead of EQing it along with the entire band mix?

This gets confusing to me, I would EQ the entire mix I get from the sound guy in one single path, so should I use that Send/Return block or just that blank signal path in the middle would be enough?

[DunedinDragon]

I'm afraid he has his specific reasons for doing that configuration specific to his needs which are clearly different than yours that he doesn't go into.  You're probably at the point now where you need to find some way of testing your ideas for how you want to configure things in your situation.  Since I don't specifically use that kind of configuration for my setup I would only be guessing what will work best for you.  You've got all the basics concepts of how it works now.  I would invest in a small (cheap) mixing board, maybe just a couple of channels, so you can test out the configuration you might want to use, and if you get one with a USB you can always use it as an audio interface for recording later on.

[Amarasco]

On 5/26/2022 at 7:40 PM, DunedinDragon said:

I'm afraid he has his specific reasons for doing that configuration specific to his needs which are clearly different than yours that he doesn't go into.  You're probably at the point now where you need to find some way of testing your ideas for how you want to configure things in your situation.  Since I don't specifically use that kind of configuration for my setup I would only be guessing what will work best for you.  You've got all the basics concepts of how it works now.  I would invest in a small (cheap) mixing board, maybe just a couple of channels, so you can test out the configuration you might want to use, and if you get one with a USB you can always use it as an audio interface for recording later on.

Alright, I will! Thanks for your help!!