Router distance from G10S System

[Iofhealing]

I am using a five G10S systems with a Soundcraft Ui16 digital mixer.  I use a Netgear external router in conjunction with the Soundcraft Ui16 for wifi.  I was advised by a Line 6 tech to keep my router at least 20 to 45 feet from the G10S receivers to get stronger and more reliable signals from my G10S systems.  However, the tech didn't mention anything about the G10S Transmitters.  Do I also need to keep my router 20. to 40 feet away from the G10S transmitters as well?  Or is it just the receivers that need to be kept a distance from the router?

 

Thanks,

Andy

[PierM]

Both transmitter and receiver will suffer from WiFi pollution, so the more the distance, the better.

 

Setting router WiFi signal power to minimum (enough for a single floor average house) will also help.

 

Isnt just the router that could interfere with G10s, but any WiFi device in the area, like Alexa, WiFi plugs and bulbs, Smart TVs, WiFi CCTVs, Smartphone WiFi, WiFi Printers etc etc..

[Iofhealing]

Hi PierM,

 

Thank you for answering my questions.  I was wondering if you could elaborate on your answers for me.

 

!). What do you mean by setting the router WiFi signal power to minimum (enough for a single floor average house)?  Do you mean that I should run the router's WiFi at 2.4 ghz as opposed to 5.) ghz?  Or do you mean that I should do something different on this one?

 

2). And what is the point of using the G10s systems if there are so many things that can interfere with them in the area?  Are they going to hold up decently?  And the funny thing is that they (the G10S's) worked just fine at all of the places that we took them to while using them with our Mackie ProFX16 mixer.  And they worked just fine even with the Soundcraft Ui16 digital mixer for the first program that we took them out on.  It was just at this one program that we went to last that I couldn't get hardly any of them to function with a descent signal.  Now granted, I had the router right on top of the Soundcraft Ui16 mixer and right next to the G10s receivers.  But do you think that the G10S's should work on a consistent basis.  I hate to think that the $1200 plus we spent on our 5 G10S systems was a waste.  

 

Thanks,

Andy

[PierM]

On 3/5/2023 at 5:29 PM, Iofhealing said:

Hi PierM,

 

Thank you for answering my questions.  I was wondering if you could elaborate on your answers for me.

 

!). What do you mean by setting the router WiFi signal power to minimum (enough for a single floor average house)?  Do you mean that I should run the router's WiFi at 2.4 ghz as opposed to 5.) ghz?  Or do you mean that I should do something different on this one?

 

2). And what is the point of using the G10s systems if there are so many things that can interfere with them in the area?  Are they going to hold up decently?  And the funny thing is that they (the G10S's) worked just fine at all of the places that we took them to while using them with our Mackie ProFX16 mixer.  And they worked just fine even with the Soundcraft Ui16 digital mixer for the first program that we took them out on.  It was just at this one program that we went to last that I couldn't get hardly any of them to function with a descent signal.  Now granted, I had the router right on top of the Soundcraft Ui16 mixer and right next to the G10s receivers.  But do you think that the G10S's should work on a consistent basis.  I hate to think that the $1200 plus we spent on our 5 G10S systems was a waste.  

 

Thanks,

Andy

 

1) I mean setting your router power output for the 2.4Ghz at lowest possible level. Check your router manual to find that option, which is available to the majority of brands and models. If your netgear is close to the Soundcraft, setting its output power to minimum, will assure an optimal signal level for the Mixer, but it will drop at a shorter distance for everything else around, which means less WiFi pollution on the stage. 

 

2) WiFI pollution is a problem for any Wireless system which works in the 2.4Ghz, and in exactly same Channels used by any other WiFi device. The G10S offer 11 Channels, and Auto function, which will scan for less busy channel and connect to it. This happens only when Transmitter is connected to its base. It's important that you check every single base before to unplug the transmitters, to check if the left bar is showing a single solid Red Led. Two Red Leds, means the channel used by this station is a little busy. Three solid reds means this channel is very busy and will cause signal drops. If you have a WiFi scanner (even an app is fine), you could check the less busy Channel@2.4Ghz, and assign these channels to your receivers manually. Do not assign the same channel to all yours receivers, but try to give them a free channel each, better if there is another channel in the middle. Like for example; if Receiver 1 is on Channel 4, set Receiver 2 on Channel 6 or Channel 2 (if these are not too busy by other SSID).

 

Let me say that you took a risky path buying five units, as these systems are very picky with Channel traffic, Noise, and Bandwidth overlapping. For busy stages you need pro grade UHF units, not really WiFi 2.4Ghz consumer stuff. :)

 

Should they work on a consistent basis? No. It will always depend on the local WiFi pollution, and in the actual Channel assignment.

 

You can improve that consistency by reducing pollution (like the power output trick on the router), shutting down WiFi on everything you don't need to use, and checking Channel quality with the 3 left leds on the receivers, and also with a WiFi scanner running on a Mac, a PC, or a Tablet/Smartphone.

 

In my experience with these units, you want 1 solid red led when Transmitter is plugged, and 3 green leds when Transmitter is in use, with an acceptable blinking of the first green led on the top. As soon as you see the green leds dropping and wobbling to much, you know this channel is being too busy, or too noisy, and it will probably cause audio drops. Remember that, when you turn on your receivers, you want ALL transmitters, to be plugged in their receivers, and you need to wait for them to scan for the best channel. Since you have 5 of them, they will fight a bit so, again, keep an eye on the left leds and manual assign their channels if needed.

 

Another trick could be to let receivers finding channels one at time, to reduce bandwidth overlapping between them at minimum.

 

Let me post a screenshot of a WiFi scanner application (in this case my house), to show you how does look a very typical situation these days. You see how many device are present in the area (these are either routers, printers and anything else generating a SSID), and the channels they are using. You can also see how each device does take more than a channel, because of the wide bandwidth. You wouldn't want your G10s connecting to those busy channels, so having the scanner it will help you solving the most problematic stages or rooms (when Auto channel won't work as expected)...

 

 

[Iofhealing]

Do you think that they would work better with an analog mixer (i.e. our Mackie ProFX16 mixer) then a digital mixer (i.e. Soundcraft Ui16) rather than a digital mixer?

[PierM]

Not really. I can't see any real benefit.

 

Your main enemy is WiFi pollution at 2.4Ghz, and also the fact your G10 will potentially fight each other for room.

 

These are device for studio, or small stages with just 1 or 2 of these. Five of them, running in a place with a busy 2.4Ghz, will result in a very unstable and unpredictable situation, doesn't matter the mixer.

 

For consistency you still need to go UHF, not really WiFi.

[Iofhealing]

Can you tell me what you mean by "UHF"?  And can you elaborate and clarify what you mean when you say to go UHF and not WiFi?

[PierM]

On 3/5/2023 at 7:18 PM, Iofhealing said:

Can you tell me what you mean by "UHF"?  And can you elaborate and clarify what you mean when you say to go UHF and not WiFi?

 

UHF stays for Ultra High Frequency, and it's standard for professional grade wireless microphones, IEMs and guitars.

 

At this point I strongly suggest to do a bit of research. :)

 

 

[Iofhealing]

Also. we never had any problems using 5 receivers and 5 transmitters for years when we used the older model of G10 receivers.  It wasn't until we upgraded to the newer model (G10S) receivers that there was even an issue.  Go figure.  

[Iofhealing]

Would we be competing with the busy 2.4 ghz if we had the router go to 5 ghz?  The former owner of our digital mixer and routertold us to never go with 5 ghz on his router to mixer connection.  He's been too busy to tell me why.  

 

We run a non-profit and could use all the tech support that we can get.  I believe that these G10S should be able to work.  We just need some support in getting them to work.  I also heard that the G10S's work best on the ground.  I can put them on our pedal board and then set the pedal board on the ground instead of the chair that we set them on now.  Would this help them work better?  

 

I will appreciate anyone's support.  If someone would be able to volunteer some of their tech time for a good cause and you live on the east coast of the U.S. (for similar time zone reasoning), we would be forever grateful to you.  We could do it remotely through cell phone communication.  

[PierM]

On 3/6/2023 at 1:39 AM, Iofhealing said:

Would we be competing with the busy 2.4 ghz if we had the router go to 5 ghz?  The former owner of our digital mixer and routertold us to never go with 5 ghz on his router to mixer connection.  He's been too busy to tell me why.  

 

That Mixer only works with 2.4Ghz.

[PierM]

On 3/6/2023 at 1:39 AM, Iofhealing said:

I will appreciate anyone's support. 

 

I already gave you all advices you need to make them work at best.

 

All you need to do is to check the signal leds on the units (it's also explained in the manuals), and turn off WiFi stuff you don't need around.

 

Put them on the floor, with some distance between them. Again, the more distance, the better (this will reduce noise in the signal).

 

Keep the Transmitters plugged to their own stations until the very last minute, when it's time to play. This will allow the receivers to scan and assign what they believe it's the best channel.

 

You can't really do anything more than that.

 

There'll be places with zero issues, and everything will work flawless...and there'll be places that will give you some headache because heavy WiFi pollution. Unfortunately, you won't have any control over other people's WiFi, and these modern routers and extenders are sporting some aggressive WiFi power which isn't helping. As I've showed you, I can see the WiFi (with strong signal) of people that live more than 150ft from my house...

[Iofhealing]

I thank you for your advice so much.  We are trying to help people who deserve out systems to work for them as you probably can understand.  I can say this because our old G10 boxes (and yes all five of them) worked with no issues for the last four years solidly.  And the G10S's are the same boxes just with a few more channels and a 9V A/C plug in option.  So you could see why I am so baffled and frustrated.  We are not going to any new places than we have always been taking.them to over the last four years.  So this is very strange.  

 

A tech from Line 6 did say, however, that the G10S's are running on a different frequency than the old G10 boxes.  So oh well.  Maybe they'll pull a Microsoft Windows kind of upgrade with these boxes and put out something that works as well as the old boxes did soon enough.  We can only hope.

 

 

 

 

[Iofhealing]

I was wondering if you could answer a question of mine.  You suggested to keep the transmitters in their stations until it's time for them to be played.  By stations, do you mean their receivers?  And the tech support person at Line 6 suggested that we dock each transmitter separately/one-by-one keeping the transmitter in for 30 seconds after choosing a channel for it.  Are you suggesting that we keep all of the transmitters in their receivers at the same time?  This would contradict what the tech had instructed us to do.  Wouldn't it?  I don't mean to insult you at all.  It's just that it appears that you both may have given me contradictory advice.  is the tech right to do each transmitter one-by-one?  I would think they know what they are talking about since they are the direct source in this situation.  Your thoughts?

[PierM]

 

On 3/7/2023 at 6:57 AM, Iofhealing said:

I was wondering if you could answer a question of mine.  You suggested to keep the transmitters in their stations until it's time for them to be played.  By stations, do you mean their receivers?  And the tech support person at Line 6 suggested that we dock each transmitter separately/one-by-one keeping the transmitter in for 30 seconds after choosing a channel for it.  Are you suggesting that we keep all of the transmitters in their receivers at the same time?  This would contradict what the tech had instructed us to do.  Wouldn't it?  I don't mean to insult you at all.  It's just that it appears that you both may have given me contradictory advice.  is the tech right to do each transmitter one-by-one?  I would think they know what they are talking about since they are the direct source in this situation.  Your thoughts?

 

I told you the same thing at the very first answer. Just don't do this operation hours before a show, because things changes with WiFi. Isn't a static situation, so just do it just before to play. Now I'm done with answers. Since you are asking l6 directly, you are in good hands already. Good luck.

 

On 3/5/2023 at 6:24 PM, PierM said:

Another trick could be to let receivers finding channels one at time, to reduce bandwidth overlapping between them at minimum.

 

[Iofhealing]

Thank you so much PierM.  I know that I speak for our entire organization and the people who we serve (program participants) when I say what a heart felt thank you that you deserve for giving us all of the time and advice that you have given us on this forum!!  And we will take your advice.

 

Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!!!  You're the best!!!!