Best Mic(s), Cabs, settings for Bass

[mlwinnig]

Hi. Pretty new to Helix (floor v. 3.6) and Fender Active Precision Deluxe Bass. Playing through Helix with Pre-amp, Amp, cabinet, EQ, compressor etc. block chain settings.

 

Wondering about best mics to use, placement, cabinets, etc..  I used to run live sound so I am familiar with what works analog. I would normally use a DI (output or box) or a bass drum or floor tom-tom mic on a mic stand or, maybe, a flat-sided "guitar" mic laying against the speaker grill.  I can't really tell much of anything from the names/types, etc. and don't just want to try them all without a clue.

 

Also, I don't get what position (7.5) is (vs. angle and distance), why distance is 9" (default for 47 Cond FET (Condenser Field Effect Transformer?)).

 

(Starting with "Bass" amps / cabs.)

 

Any / all help is greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[datacommando]

On 7/7/2023 at 8:35 PM, mlwinnig said:

I can't really tell much of anything from the names/types, etc. and don't just want to try them all without a clue.

Hi,

 

Downloaded from https://dshowmusic.com/category/line-6-helix/

 

Hope this helps/makes sense

 

line-6-helix-microphone-models-dshowmusic.pdf

[craiganderton]

I did a frequency response analysis for the Helix mics and cabs in The Big Book of Helix Tips and Tricks. Unfortunately, I've used up my allocation for image attachments in this forum, so I can't include any of the frequency response graphs. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, but hopefully the following descriptions included with the graphs will be helpful to you. (Helix is a great processor for bass - one of my favorite presets uses a pedal to do pitch slides. The sound is almost like a synth bass. Fun stuff!)

 

v3.50 Bass Cabs Mics

 

How these mics respond depends on how close they are to the speaker, because this influences the bass-boosting proximity effect. The Brute was the standard cab chosen for these measurements, so the various mic responses are influenced by the cab’s response. 

 

40 Dynamic

 

 Although the PR 40 is often used with bass, it’s a versatile microphone that’s used in many recording scenarios. The presence lift in the upper midrange makes the PR 40 popular for vocals, as well as miking acoustic sources that need a solid bass response. 

 

52 Dynamic

 

 The Shure Beta 52A is designed specifically for kick and bass. For emphasizing bass with a sharp attack, Shure recommends placing the mic 1" from the speaker, on-axis with the speaker cone’s center. Placing the mic further back (but still on-axis) softens the attack and reduces the bass. The 52’s frequency response resembles Shure’s quoted Beta 52A response with the mic placed about 2 ft. away from the speaker.

 

88 Dynamic

 

 The response curve looks like what Beyerdynamic quotes for placing the mic about 4 inches away from the speaker. Closer settings increase the proximity effect, hence the bass response. The even, extended high-frequency response is another distinguishing characteristic.

 

D6 Dynamic

 

 This is another mic that’s clearly biased toward its intended application of miking kick drums and bass amps. The significant low-frequency boost gives a sense of fullness. The high-frequency boost provides articulation from high-frequency pick and string noises. Furthermore, the scooped mids reduce the potential for boominess and mud. This is a specialized mic that does what it’s supposed to do.

 

Bass Cabs

 

1x12 Epicenter

 

This final group of cabs is for bass, so a horn usually adds upper midrange emphasis. Without this, the bass would have a hard time sounding defined in a mix. The peak in this cab is more subtle than most, and the response is smooth.

 

1x15 Ampeg B-15

 

The B-15 has a reputation for a deep, full bass sound with plenty of articulation. This curve shows why: there’s a significant bass peak, midrange scoop to make room for other instruments, and a broad peak centered around 3 kHz.

 

2x15 Brute

 

From the midrange on down, the response is relatively flat. This is likely due to the unusual, individually tuned, multi-port system. The upper-midrange peak is from the horn, which contributes the high frequencies needed to emphasize “string zing” and articulation.  

 

4x10 Garden

 

This splits the difference somewhat between the previous two bass cabs. The Garden has more of a scoop than the Brute, and a slightly reduced low end compared to the B-15.

 

4x10 Ampeg Pro

 

4x10 cabs tend to have more similarities than differences, and 4x10 Ampeg Pro and 4x10 Garden are no exception. However, the Ampeg Pro has a narrower upper-midrange peak, and a peak at 10 kHz for more “air.”

 

8x10 SVT AV

 

This is the only Helix bass cab whose physical counterpart doesn’t include a horn. As a result, this one’s all about the bass, with a midrange scoop and a peak around 4 kHz. 

[ShelbyMustangGt]

421 dead center 1" away on the Ampeg 4x12 does it for me with the SVT4 with the Ultra Low and Ultra High engaged. Fat sound for Rock.

[craiganderton]

On 7/7/2023 at 2:35 PM, mlwinnig said:

Also, I don't get what position (7.5) is (vs. angle and distance), why distance is 9" (default for 47 Cond FET (Condenser Field Effect Transformer?).

 

There are some rules of thumb:

 

• Moving a mic closer to the speaker increases the amount of bass.
• Moving it further away reduces bass, but also affects midrange. The precise midrange effect depends on the distance.
• Moving the mic horizontally across the speaker reduces brightness as the mic gets further away from the center.
• The main effect of mic angle  seems to relate to phase. It think it may be less important with bass than with guitar, possibly because bass has longer wavelengths due to the lower frequencies.

 

[mlwinnig]

Awesome responses. Thanks Everyone, but ESPECIALLY CraigAnderton. Are you able to email the graphs? I would love to see them. Wondering if a .zip file could be uploaded containing them.

 

So I can see where one MIGHT want some distance from a woofer in a cabinet where a top-mounted horn is part of the equation, but I have always had pretty good results with "near contact" placement of mics on everything from kick drums (if not INSIDE the drum), all manner of drum kit and guitars and basses. If anything, high frequency "bleed" tended to be more of a problem - especially if using vocal mics (which I tried to avoid) both due to FR and pickup pattern. It would NEVER have occurred to me to place a mic that far (9") from a bass cabinet.

 

Still don't know what "position" is.  Is this possibly clock position? (7.5 being 7:30 with the cabinet at 12:00?)

[silverhead]

‘Position’ refers to the horizontal mic placement relative to the speaker cone/edge. It is described in Craig’s 3rd bullet point in his most recent post.

[craiganderton]

On 7/12/2023 at 4:21 PM, mlwinnig said:

Awesome responses. Thanks Everyone, but ESPECIALLY CraigAnderton. Are you able to email the graphs? I would love to see them. Wondering if a .zip file could be uploaded containing them.

 

Sorry, the forum size limits won't let me post any more uploads. But hey, the eBook that includes the graphs is only $19.95. With 459 pages and over 300 presets/files, you might find some other useful stuff in there :)

[mlwinnig]

Craig - on a slightly different but related note... now that I have your eBook and presets, I would like to load them.  I don't know how much room exists by default. I have read that there are many that are rarely used and commonly backed up and deleted.  As I will only use my Helix floor for bass, I am fine removing things less suited to bass and put as much bass-relevant presets.

 

Please share your take on "best practices" to accomplish this.

 

Thanks in advance for anything you can provide.

[silverhead]

Your Helix Floor has 8 setlists that can each hold 128 presets. That’s 1024 presets. I suggest using a dedicated setlist for this. If you don’t have an empty one create a backup of one existing setlist and overwrite those presets with Craig’s. Repeat with another setlist if you need more space.

[craiganderton]

On 7/12/2023 at 11:27 PM, mlwinnig said:

Craig - on a slightly different but related note... now that I have your eBook and presets, I would like to load them.  I don't know how much room exists by default. I have read that there are many that are rarely used and commonly backed up and deleted.  As I will only use my Helix floor for bass, I am fine removing things less suited to bass and put as much bass-relevant presets.

 

Please share your take on "best practices" to accomplish this.

 

Aside from Silverhead's helpful advice, note that many of the presets are designed to show specific techniques mentioned in the book, while others are intended as presets you can use live or in the studio. I think HX Edit is ideal for doing what you want. Back up a setlist and use it as a test bed. Drag a preset into HX Edit and play through it. If you like it, save it to a preset slot. Otherwise, move on to the next preset and try that out.

 

After deciding which presets you want to keep, store them in a folder on your computer. Then, bring them into setlists for specific situations (e.g., 4-string bass setlist, 5-string bass setlist, cover band gigs setlist, etc.) as appropriate.

 

Chapter 10 has 31 presets designed specifically for bass, so start there. However, I'd recommend testing out some of the guitar-oriented presets, as many of them are adaptable for bass by substituting different amps or effects. For example, Chapter 7 on Combi-Band processing is useful with bass because of how you can process the midrange separately from the bass and highs.

 

I hope this helps! I would very much appreciate your comments on which presets you find most useful with bass, because I expect to expand the number of bass presets in version 1.4 when it comes out. I'd also be interested in what kind of bass presets you'd like to see in the future. To avoid taking up bandwidth here, please post your comments in the official Helix book support forum. Thanks!