Using Output to USB Tskes Variax Model out of Snapshot Mode

[steveglock]

I am working with a JTV-59 and a Helix LT. I am using the latest firmware (3.71?). I have setup a Preset with different Snapshots using different Variax models.  {Spank-4}, {Lester-1}, and {Accoustic-3}.  These worked great until yesterday when I setup a kinda Ream configuration with Cakewalk to normalize output levels. 

 

In HX Edit, if I leave the Input block = Multi or Variax, everything is fine. When I set Input = USB 7/8 (or any other USB or  other non-Variax input), the Variax drop down disappears from HX Edit. I get it. But when I return to Multi, the Variax Model is no longer in Snapshot mode and all Snapshots have the same Variax model (no more {}s). 

 

1) Snapshot mode and settings for Variax model should be saved and restored after using USB Input.

2) just noticed Output block levels are also lost after returning from Input = USB. :-(  

3) Apparently using Input = USB is an unreliable way to normalize output levels as it looks like model and output block levels are ignored.  And lost.  

 

[datacommando]

On 3/9/2024 at 2:30 AM, steveglock said:

These worked great until yesterday when I setup a kinda Ream configuration with Cakewalk to normalize output levels. 

 

Hi,

 

Usually when something was working fine, then it isn't, I will consider the question -"what has changed?"

 

If you revert the previous configuration does it work as expected?

 

I have read through your post several times, and quite frankly I cannot comprehend what you're trying to achieve here. Your post title states "Output to USB", yet the body of the post only mentions USB 7/8 IN?, plus other non Variax Inputs. Well, I think you have realised that if an input is not designed to accept Variax then you will not have the option to edit it. You don't explain how you think that you will be able to get Variax control info from the Helix into Cakewalk and back into the Helix on USB7/8. It makes no sense at all.

 

If you have recorded Variax audio into Cakewalk then that can be played back using USB 1/2 into the Helix, without anymore additional Helix processing, just like a regular audio interface. Having said that if you have recorded a DI signal of the Variax unprocessed audio via USB 7/8 into your DAW, that can only play back the raw audio over USB 7/8 for the purpose of re-amping through your Helix hardware.

 

As for your statement:- "Apparently using Input = USB is an unreliable way to normalize output levels". Once more I have no idea what you are aiming for here.

 

A little more clarity about what you are trying to do would be a big help - "setup a kinda Ream configuration with Cakewalk to normalize output levels", means nothing to me.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[steveglock]

Sorry I didn't make this clear enough. I will try to better explain what I meant by "trying to normalize Output volume levels" but I really want to focus on what I believe is a flaw that occurs when you assign a USB port to the Input block. 

 

When I said, "everything was working correctly" I meant with input set to Multi, every Snapshot had the intended Variax model. Snapshot1 had {Spank-4}. Snapshot2 had {Lester-1}.  Right clicking on Input Block/"Model (Preset)" in HX Edit showed the "Snapshots" assignment selected. 

 

You are correct - what changed is key. What changed is I temporarily switched the Input block to USB 7/8.

 

Ignore this paragraph if it is confusing: I was trying to monitor the Cakewalk Input level meter to help me adjust Helix output levels. Trying to get all my Snapshots to about -10db. I send a recorded Cakewalk DI track output to Helix on USB7/8. Then output Helix USB 1/2 (with amp and effect processing) to another Cakewalk track and monitor the input level there.  Is there a better way? Let's leave that for another post. In fact, there are already many on that subject. 

 

When I switch back to Multi Input, the Variax Model is no longer Snapshot controlled. Snapshot1 is now Lester-1. Snapshot2 is Lester-1. ALL snapshots are now Lester-1. No brackets. Right click on "Model (Preset)" and Model's assignment is now "None".  You can duplicate easily with USB 3/4 and 5/6. Forget Cakewalk, in HX Edit switch to USB 7/8 for the Input block, then right away switch it back to Multi and see the Model's Snapshot brackets are gone.  For what it's worth, all the other Snapshot assignment variables (Amp gain, reverb Mix...) seem to be preserved afterwards. 

 

 

[steveglock]

CORRECTION: The title should be "Using USB INPUT FROM USB Takes Variax Model out of Snapshot Mode". 

[waymda]

On 3/10/2024 at 10:02 AM, steveglock said:

You are correct - what changed is key. What changed is I temporarily switched the Input block to USB 7/8.

 

If I read this correctly, you're expecting the Helix to change to the USB input mode, AND retain the settings for the Multi/Helix input mode for when you switch back.

 

Whilst I understand why you want to do this I can't think of a way the Helix would achieve this, short of retaining parameter settings independent of selected input choice, which would require some sort of input mode related memory provisioning and management.

 

I suspect its dropping all parameters not relevant to the selected mode (ie Variax model settings) as it no longer 'needs' or can use those parameters. I would also expect that the output block behaves the same way with any patch specific settings for PowerCab and DT amps when USB is selected as well as the Multi block output levels. This would explain why the other snapshot parameters remain in place - nothing has changed to wipe them.

 

Think of these blocks as behaving like any other block and the input/output sources as being a new model dropped into the block.

 

To do what you want, Multi input would accept any of the USB inputs (not just 1/2) as well as guitar/variax, and Multi output would allow selection of USB 7/8 within the DAW, but it doesn't look like its engineered that way. This might be worth putting onto IdeaScale, after checking it hasn't been done already.

[datacommando]

On 3/9/2024 at 11:02 PM, steveglock said:

Sorry I didn't make this clear enough. I will try to better explain what I meant by "trying to normalize Output volume levels" but I really want to focus on what I believe is a flaw that occurs when you assign a USB port to the Input block. 

 

When I said, "everything was working correctly" I meant with input set to Multi, every Snapshot had the intended Variax model. Snapshot1 had {Spank-4}. Snapshot2 had {Lester-1}.  Right clicking on Input Block/"Model (Preset)" in HX Edit showed the "Snapshots" assignment selected. 

 

You are correct - what changed is key. What changed is I temporarily switched the Input block to USB 7/8.

 

Ignore this paragraph if it is confusing: I was trying to monitor the Cakewalk Input level meter to help me adjust Helix output levels. Trying to get all my Snapshots to about -10db. I send a recorded Cakewalk DI track output to Helix on USB7/8. Then output Helix USB 1/2 (with amp and effect processing) to another Cakewalk track and monitor the input level there.  Is there a better way? Let's leave that for another post. In fact, there are already many on that subject. 

 

When I switch back to Multi Input, the Variax Model is no longer Snapshot controlled. Snapshot1 is now Lester-1. Snapshot2 is Lester-1. ALL snapshots are now Lester-1. No brackets. Right click on "Model (Preset)" and Model's assignment is now "None".  You can duplicate easily with USB 3/4 and 5/6. Forget Cakewalk, in HX Edit switch to USB 7/8 for the Input block, then right away switch it back to Multi and see the Model's Snapshot brackets are gone.  For what it's worth, all the other Snapshot assignment variables (Amp gain, reverb Mix...) seem to be preserved afterwards. 

 

Hi,

 

I’m thinking the same as the comment from @waymda, in the post above. I’m not in the studio right now to be able to check this, but my guess is that you load up your preset containing the Variax settings and they are all there, but when you switch to input USB 7/8 the Helix will drop the Variax options simply because it is not set up to handle them. Obviously, when you switch back to the Multi input the Variax options will have been discarded, but if you reload the preset they should still there.

 

As far as doing the “round trip” to set levels goes, well it all seems rather pointless. Why send a DI audio signal when all you need to do is load a Mono 6 Switch Looper into the first block of the Helix signal chain. That would allow you to record a minute of totally dry audio to pass through the rest of your preset into your DAW. You could then mess around as much as you need to set Cakewalk input levels, while being able to click through your Snapshots. 
 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[steveglock]

Thanks Folks. Good advice. For what it's worth, re-loading the Preset did restore the Model snapshot assignments UNLESS the Preset was saved.  Since I was adjusting output levels and saving them, the Model info was lost. 

 

I like the idea of using the Looper! Will give that a try. 

 

Thanks again....

 

Steve