A Question About Groups/Channels on Catalyst

[zodymarc]

After the recent update, I'm about confused about what all I have.  The chart in the CX manual (I have the pre-CX Catalyst but with the 2.0 update) is a bit confusing.  Let's stick with Clean for example.  The chart says Group 1 is Clarity and Group 2 is Archetype Clean Mod.  But here is what I have:  Group 1 Channel A is labeled Clarity, Group 1 Channel B is labeled Archetype Clean Mod, Group 2 Channel A is labeled Clarity, Group 2 Channel B is labeled Archetype Clean Mod.  When I toggle between Group 1 Channel A and Group 2 Channel A, despite being labeled the same, they both sound different (but the settings Bass/Mid/Treble etc) are the same.

 

What is my small mind missing?

[rd2rk]

You're confusing BANKS and GROUPS, and maybe misinterpreting the chart?

 

Each BANK consists of 2 "Channels". "Channels" are NOT the same as "Channels" in an analog amp.

Each "Channel" is actually a PRESET.

Each CHANNEL/PRESET can contain any amp from either GROUP. GROUP 1 = ORIGINAL and GROUP 2 = NEW in CX.

The default CHANNELS/PRESETS of BANK 1 contain CLARITY (Ch A) from GROUP 1 and ARCHETYPE CLEAN (Ch B) from GROUP 2.

They could just as easily contain Elmsley from GROUP 2 on Ch A and OBLIVION from GROUP 1 on CH B.

IOW - those assignments are not written in stone. They are simply PRESETS that can contain anything you choose.

 

The Chart shows a Column for AMP TYPE, but the "amps" listed in that column are merely the amp names that are silk-screened on the Panel.

The amps listed in the VOICING column are nothing more than what comes loaded in the Factory Presets.

They can be anything you choose.

 

So, think of the names on the Panel surrounding the Selector Knob as BANKS A-F, and only as relates to "This is a BANK consisting of 2 PRESETS called A & B".

After all, if you PRESS the EFFECT button (labelled EFFECT 1 on the CX) and TAP button at the same time so that the LED on the EFFECT button is BLUE, the positions on the Amp Selector Knob (when you PRESS AND HOLD those buttons) now represent PLASTICHORUS, OPTO TREM, SCRIPT MOD PHASER, GRAY FLANGER, UBIQUITOUS VIBE and ROTARY.

IOW - the CHART changes to the EFFECT Chart (Page 10) that corresponds to the EFFECT TYPE for that LED color (DELAY=GREEN; MODULATION= BLUE; etc).

 

So, if you CHANGE the amp in BANK 1 CH A from CLARITY (the default) to something else, be sure to change the default NAME of that Channel.

You need to do that in the APP, and after typing a new name don't forget to hit ENTER before you SAVE the CHANNEL/PRESET with the new name or it won't take!

 

Questions?

 

 

[zodymarc]

I think I get what you're saying, but it seems a little weird when you look at that chart because I have not made any changes from the factory settings and yet, on Clean, Clarity is not Group 1.  It is Channel A Group 1 and Channel A Group 2.  Seems to me, they intended for Clarity to be Channel A and Channel B of Group 1, but that isn't how it worked out.

 

 

[rd2rk]

You are still confusing the component parts.

 

The names silk-screened around the Selector Knob on the Panel indicate an AMP TYPE/VOICING pairing.

CLEAN is CLARITY in GROUP 1 and ARCHETYPE in GROUP 2.

The Chart on Page 9 describes those pairings. 

Clarity is in Group 1. It is not in Group 2. But it can be on ANY CHANNEL of ANY BANK.

The GROUPS are simply - GROUP 1 = ORIGINAL AMPS and GROUP 2 = NEW AMPS in CX.

The GROUPS are not in any way related/tied to the CHANNELS until they are SET and SAVED to a particular CHANNEL/PRESET.

You can have any AMP TYPE from either GROUP in either CHANNEL of any BANK.

The LED indicates which PAIRING is active in any CHANNEL/PRESET (A or B) of the current BANK.

If OBLIVION is SAVED to CHANNEL A of BANK 1, then the LED of the Physical Selector Knob will indicate Hi-Gain.

There is no indication on the PANEL of which GROUP is ACTIVE.

It would be nice if the SELECTOR KNOB LED changed color to indicate the GROUP. Maybe in a future update.

 

In the APP, the NAME of the PRESET/CHANNEL does not automatically change when you change the Amp Type/Voicing/Group.

They are NOT tied together.

In the default presets, as the chart depicts, BANK 1 CHANNEL A is CLEAN = CLARITY, Group 1.

BANK 1 CHANNEL B is CLEAN = ARCHETYPE, Group 2.

In the default presets, if you are in BANK 1, CHANNEL A, the PRESET NAME will be CLARITY and CHANNEL B will be ARCHETYPE no matter WHAT actual Amp Type/Voicing is loaded, and the LED will be on CLEAN. You have to change the NAME manually as I described.

There is no place in the current APP where the actual name of the GROUP 1 or 2 amp is displayed, merely GROUP 1 or GROUP 2 below the Virtual Selector Knob.

It would be nice if, in a future APP update, they were to have the names of the amps on the VIRTUAL selector knob reflect the names of the amps in the selected GROUP.

They probably reasoned that, since the amp names on the PHYSICAL selector knob can't change, it would be confusing.

In the meantime, we just need to remember which amps are in which pairing/group.

 

I hope that all of this typing (much more than appears in this final draft!) clarifies things because I'm getting a headache!

[zodymarc]

Thank you for putting so much work into your response.  I'm going to dig into this and see if I can wrap my brain around it. 

 

 

[zodymarc]

This quote from your post was the heart of my problem: 

 

There is no place in the current APP where the actual name of the GROUP 1 or 2 amp is displayed, merely GROUP 1 or GROUP 2 below the Virtual Selector Knob.

It would be nice if, in a future APP update, they were to have the names of the amps on the VIRTUAL selector knob reflect the names of the amps in the selected GROUP.

 

Not that it doesn't indicate on the Selector knob but that, within the Catalyst Edit app, it doesn't change to the preset name at the top of the screen when you change the Group, and therefore, voicing.  So it might sit there on Archetype Clean even though that isn't what you are using.  Seems like an oversight but I do love the amp so I guess I won't complain now that I have it figured out.

 

Thanks again!

[rd2rk]

Not an oversight, an intentional design feature.

The field at the top is a USER ASSIGNABLE PRESET/CHANNEL NAME, never intended to reflect the actual AMP model.

If YOU want the NAME field to reflect the AMP name, it takes a moment to EDIT it.

 

Consider this - suppose that you only use 3 of the 12 amps, and have 3 presets using variations of Amp A; 5 presets using Amp B and 4 presets using Amp C.

You now have 3 presets named "AMP A", 5 presets named "AMP B" and 4 Presets named "AMP C".

You'd have to EDIT the names or you wouldn't know which is which, wouldn't you?

 

Lastly, unless you ALWAYS have the APP open that NAME FIELD, for all intents and purposes, DOESN'T EVEN EXIST!

IDK about you, but when I'm performing on stage the LAST thing I have time (or desire) to deal with is a COMPUTER SCREEN!

And if I wanted a screen on my amp I'd get a FENDER MUSTANG!

 

But, if this is important to you, post your suggestion here:

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/c/

 

FWIW - the ideal companion to the Catalyst is either an HX Stomp, HX FX or Helix Floor/LT.

Full control via MIDI, massively expanded amp and FX selection and a screen to tell you whatever you think you need to know without bringing a frelling computer on stage. Even the iPad I use at home would be an unwelcome distraction.

 

Works for me, but TBH, for a grab'n'go jam rig, the Cat and LFS2 FS is all I need! Maybe a WAH...

[Fuzzystump]

I am so glad you asked this question and also grateful for the time rd2rk has spent answering.  I have an original Catalyst 100 and have also done the update and have been really confused with the banks/channels/amp voicing settings.

 

I think what finally "clicked" in my mind is that the Bank/Channel setting is nothing more than a PRESET that could have any amp voicing/effects saved to it.  

 

In retrospect the manual is pretty clear that the there are 6 BANKS, each with 2 PRESETS saved to Channel A or B but it just didn't click.  Also --and I'll bet I'm not alone here --but sometimes our brains just get lazy and don't want to sort through a pile of information and instead we just start noodling with our fingers while switching knobs.  

 

I'm sure there are many others with this same confusion that will eventually find their way to this thread and the lightbulb comes on.

[gmaland]

I hope this is relevant enough for this thread, but as a new owner of the Catalyst (and someone who's owned a TON of Line 6 stuff), I don't think I'm understanding how people keep track of their presets.  Without being connected to the computer, it seems like all I can know from looking at the amp is which 2-amp-group is being used by the current preset.  And I can tell if the "effect" is on or off and the reverb is on or off.  But I sure have no idea which preset this actually is.  And I'm wondering if people think that the way the model selector lights up to indicate the 2-amp-group is meant to communicate also that your presets should be numerically ordered to match the amp models, because this is how you can get a little more info about your current preset.  If the amp model is the "super clean" model group - then you are on "channel 1".  Is this how people are keeping track, or is there something way simpler that helps people?

[rd2rk]

Yes, this is very confusing.

 

Each "TYPE" - Clean, Boutique etc. is a two PRESET group. It doesn't matter what amp is in the presets.

For instance - CLEAN could have an "A" channel with a CRUNCH amp (VOLTAGE - Group 1) and the "B" channel could be a HI GAIN amp (BADONK - Group 2).

The silkscreened labels on the amp panel were, I THINK, chosen because they had to say something and those labels represented what they thought would be the most common use case - 6 amps with two channels each increasing in GAIN from CLEAN to HI GAIN.

 

Probably the cheapest and most useful solution is what I did - pick up a cheap OLD iPad from Craigslist (mine was $99) and a USB to whatever the connection on the iPad is (mine is lightning) and a USB B to Lightning cable ($14 for 6.6ft from Amazon). In addition to running the Catalyst Editor it also eliminates the annoying USB ground loop problems you can get when connected to a laptop with other USB connections and is much more portable.

This is a MUCH superior solution vs if they'd put a silly little 2" screen on the panel, which likely would've added just as much to the price and been much less useful.

The iPad also serves double duty as my Kindle Reader and can be used to play break music at gigs.

 

With or without the iPad or computer, once I make whatever adjustments I want, I select the presets via MIDI:

001 = CLEAN Channel A

002 = CLEAN Channel B

003 = BOUTIQUE Channel A

004 = BOUTIQUE Channel B

etc.

 

Since I use my Helix (or HXS) to control and supplement the Cat, I can name the presets whatever I want.

 

If you don't have a Helix/HXS or something like a Morningstar MC6/8 you'll have to rely on old school methods:

What GOD gave you - your memory. Dude, it's only 12 presets!

 

Or a $2 notepad and a pen. ;-)

 

 

 

[mandiboy]

On 4/1/2024 at 4:41 PM, rd2rk said:

You're confusing BANKS and GROUPS, and maybe misinterpreting the chart?

 

Each BANK consists of 2 "Channels". "Channels" are NOT the same as "Channels" in an analog amp.

Each "Channel" is actually a PRESET.

Each CHANNEL/PRESET can contain any amp from either GROUP. GROUP 1 = ORIGINAL and GROUP 2 = NEW in CX.

The default CHANNELS/PRESETS of BANK 1 contain CLARITY (Ch A) from GROUP 1 and ARCHETYPE CLEAN (Ch B) from GROUP 2.

They could just as easily contain Elmsley from GROUP 2 on Ch A and OBLIVION from GROUP 1 on CH B.

IOW - those assignments are not written in stone. They are simply PRESETS that can contain anything you choose.

 

The Chart shows a Column for AMP TYPE, but the "amps" listed in that column are merely the amp names that are silk-screened on the Panel.

The amps listed in the VOICING column are nothing more than what comes loaded in the Factory Presets.

They can be anything you choose.

 

So, think of the names on the Panel surrounding the Selector Knob as BANKS A-F, and only as relates to "This is a BANK consisting of 2 PRESETS called A & B".

After all, if you PRESS the EFFECT button (labelled EFFECT 1 on the CX) and TAP button at the same time so that the LED on the EFFECT button is BLUE, the positions on the Amp Selector Knob (when you PRESS AND HOLD those buttons) now represent PLASTICHORUS, OPTO TREM, SCRIPT MOD PHASER, GRAY FLANGER, UBIQUITOUS VIBE and ROTARY.

IOW - the CHART changes to the EFFECT Chart (Page 10) that corresponds to the EFFECT TYPE for that LED color (DELAY=GREEN; MODULATION= BLUE; etc).

 

So, if you CHANGE the amp in BANK 1 CH A from CLARITY (the default) to something else, be sure to change the default NAME of that Channel.

You need to do that in the APP, and after typing a new name don't forget to hit ENTER before you SAVE the CHANNEL/PRESET with the new name or it won't take!

 

Questions?

 

 

I have the same issue I lost all the pre update  factory presets- I want them back the  2.0 ones are all no gain