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Big fan of (and for) the StageScape and a hint for owners
by Olyoly on 2012-08-21 03:47:34

Hi there!

First of all: Since 3 weeks I'm a big fan of this little mixer . I'm playing the guitar in a band with 5 musicians and doing the mix from the stage. Everything works nearly perfect and especially the "auto trim" is a big relief for me - and there were a lot of compliments for the sound.

But ...

... last saturday in Germany it was too hot for the mixer . We played at the same venue on friday, saturday and sunday. On friday it was about 28° C (app.82° F) and everthing worked well - the mixer on stage and (for the soundcheck) the ipad with a Linksys1000 stick.

On saturday it was a bit "hotter" - about 32°C (app. 89°F) and after 20 minutes (luckily during the soundcheck, that we had to do again because on the second day we changed some amps) the ipad lost the connection - I connected again, after a minute or so the ipad lost connection, I connected again, after a minute or so the ipad lost connection, ...

So I turned off the ipad and for the next 10 minutes I did the soundcheck with the mixer on stage - until the screen showed no reaction anymore - and the same with the encoders. I had a totally frozen system . Fortunately mics and amps and keyboards were still audible - but no chance to control anything. Terrible, isn't it?

Note: The mixer is installed in a rackcase - with a selfmade rackmount - and the mixer is half way out of the rack. (It's a "pity" that  the rackmount is not included - and still not shipped.)

I did a cold reset by turning off/on the StageScape but after 2 minutes it was frozen again. I recogniced that the chassis of the mixer became really hot and so I looked for a fan (ventilator) and fortunately i found one - after installing the fan we had a "cool" mixer for the rest of the weekend and everything (also the ipad) worked well again.

To come to an end: this mixer is imho a big relief for a band without an FOH-engineer, it sounds good out of the box, it is easy to handle, and so on ... - but in future I have to look for the weather forecast to see if I have to install a fan or not. And to be serious: I'm really wondering if I keep this mixer if this "frozen zone" happens again.

And at last a question: is it possible to have an software reset in case of a frozen system?

Regards

Roger



Re: Big fan of (and for) the StageScape and a hint for owners
by tochiro on 2012-08-21 05:43:26

That's really worrying :-(  I live in the South and play a lot outside in the summer (40 degrees C.... can happen).



Re: Big fan of (and for) the StageScape and a hint for owners
by dboomer on 2012-08-21 08:35:15

HI Roger

Thanks for the complement and sorry for your problems

All electronics have a heat limit and the limit for the StageScape is much, much higher than what you have reported.  Was the unit ever out in the sun?  Possible it gets too hot in your rack, can you try it out of the rack and see if that makes a difference.  Other than that if the unit is shutting down in an air temp of only 89 degrees there is likely some kind of hardware issue and you should get it serviced.  Please keep us informed as we are very anxious to get you up and running.

As far as losing the iPad connection it's hard to say what caused that.  It is likely just a wi-fi problem.  If you get in an area with a lot of wi-fi competition it can get unpredictable.  It could be something as simple as a laptop running nearby of if the audience has wi-fi turned on in their smartphones.  Wi-fi dongles are not very powerful and you may want to consider going to an external router which is likely more powerful and you can raise it up to maintain line of sight.  Also you could try using the EnGenious unit as I find it has more range.  When the screen locked was the wi-fi dongle still connected?  There is a possible connection there as well.

Rackmount kits have been in stock and shipping for weeks now.

The software resets every time you turn on the mixer.  You could also try a factory reset by pushing the "i" button in the upper right hand corner and selecting from the menu that pops up.



Re: Big fan of (and for) the StageScape and a hint for owners
by dboomer on 2012-08-21 08:38:04

Hey tochiro

The ambient temp limit for the mixer is above 125 degrees F.  If the unit is in direct sunlight on a hot day it is possible to raise the temp of the mixer much higher than the air tempertature.  Keeping the unit in the shade is usually the answer for all the electronic gear.



Re: Big fan of (and for) the StageScape and a hint for owners
by ArneLine6 on 2012-08-21 09:00:32

I am very sorry to hear that. The M20d is has been tested and the max temperature is 50°C (122°F) and 55°C (131°F) for rack mounted units.  This specific unit seems to have a problem and we will examine this.



Re: Big fan of (and for) the StageScape and a hint for owners
by Olyoly on 2012-08-21 11:46:46

Hi dboomer,

thanks for the fast answers .

Starting with the rackmount - since 3 weeks I'm looking for this rackmount in Germany's biggest online stores and can't find it. (Even in the Line6 Homepage store - nothing! May be I'm blind ).

Second - I disconnected the wifi dongle after three or four times "connected" - "disconnected" on the ipad. The day before it worked well for more than 5 hours - ( a friend started and stopped the Media Player / the recording via ipad when we paused).

Third - we played in a kind of tent - no direct sunlight, just an "overall temperature" without any sunshine or airflow. (Sorry for my english - I hope, I  use the right expressions ). As I mentioned before - after the "cool down" with the fan everything worked fine.

And here two pictures of my rack construction:

stagescape01.jpg

stagescape02.jpg

Fourth - the connection was even disconnected when the distance between the ipad and the mixer was less than 10 centimetres. (On sunday - with the fan - everything worked correctly).

Fifth - I know that there's a reset by turning off/on the mixer - but in this case, the the whole output will stop. (During the "frozen zone"  the output still continued - so I am looking for a kind of reset without stoping the output, eg. pushing the monitor button 500 times while pressing the perform and recording button at the same time ).

I hope I won't be misunderstood - I am really a fan of this mixer and I congratulate Line6 for this invention - I only want to make thinks work better.

And sure - I will keep you informed .

Kind regards

Roger



Re: Big fan of (and for) the StageScape and a hint for owners
by MerlinFL on 2012-08-21 12:37:22

I hope everyone easily understands your problems and your examples describing what happened and how you were able to work with the unit after adding a fan to move air around the unit.

I'm here in the USA.  I do not have one of these units, and have no idea why Wi-Fi works or doesn't other than interference as suggested.

What does interest me with all of what I've read here and other sites about not only the L6 PA mixer, but other rack gear from many other companies.  I'm "old" and every rack ever used was always equipped with one or more box fans - especially the amp racks which always bet very hot no matter what the temp is outside.  I'm very confused why adding a fan is appearing like it is only done rarely, instead of always.  Why?

Direct sunlight at nearly any temperature is always bad and no gear should be in direct sunlight if possible ever.  It will preserve the life of the gear by not exposing it to direct sunlight even it it's not to hot in the air or even if the gear doesn't shut down.  Studies have been done that indicate that direct sunlight on any electronic gear causes a shorter life span before failure.

And as I was relating in the above paragraphs, why are gear owners not using box fans installed permanently into their rack cases?  This is common and a "must" practice for anyone running PA or large backline gear.  Constant air circulation not only helps keep the entire rack core temp down, but it also helps keep the dust build up from happening as quickly as it would with no air circulation.

I wonder how many pros are still opening their gear up and cleaning out all the accumulated dust inside each unit?  This was also a regular routine maintenance thing us "old" pros did among many other routine maintenance things to help keep the gear from failing later rather than sooner.  Most new gear doesn't come with any fan or air circulation design except perhaps most power amps.  Even tube amps never usually have fans built in and those units run hotter than any other because of the heat generated by the tubes themselves.  Look at some "old" 1960/1970 era live concert footage and perhaps you'll see a grate or even a fan in all the racks and some even mounted on tube guitar or bass amp heads to keep the temps down inside all the gear running.  And also do not forget the heat generated by incandescent stage lighting on your musical equipment as well.  All this heat then cooling down is long term bad for all your gear, but it's easy to prevent from happening quickly with some routine procedures and routine maintenance.

Simple principle - constant heating up and cooling down of any electronic component caused expansion and contraction which can and usually does equal electronic failure or total breakdown.  I think over the more recent decades this simple principle and the problems it causes have been lost or forgotten.

Another related topic - how many out there play inside then go outside to load up and your gear is covered in moisture from the change in temperature?  Or bring in gear from a warmer temp into a cooler room and feel or perhaps see moisture on your gear?  If you see or feel moisture on your gear, please let it acclimate before turning it on.  You'll have much better luck keep your gear from failing if you take this simple step.  Also dry off your wooden instruments as often as possible when moisture builds up from temp change as well as use lemon oil or other wood treatment/conditioning products and not just guitar polish.  These simple steps will keep your wood from cracking/bowing/twisting, and many other expansion/contraction related problems.

Like what happened with the Line 6 Korean made JTV-89 that had an entire boatload show up with frets hanging over the edges of the neck because someone, somewhere before or after the guitars were built did not take this precaution into consideration and allowed an entire boatload of these model JTV guitars to show up with this problem.

Why doesn't anyone carry a high powered hair-dryer/paint-dryer with their musical equipment to keep the moisture from temp changes and humidity to a minimum?  Are people lining their instrument cases with Silica Gel or even "freeze dried coffee" (this is another "old" trick for moisture absorption if you couldn't get Silica Gel).  The same should be use for any electronic gear that has enough room on the inside to insert safely one or more Silica Gel packs.  You can buy these in bulk fairly easily anywhere in the world just by using any search engine to find a distributor.

Just some more food for thought.



Re: Big fan of (and for) the StageScape and a hint for owners
by Davemwilkinson on 2012-08-21 18:18:38

Hi line 6, I have also been trying to find a rackmount for this mixer, I am from the UK but currently working in Majorca Spain (the temperature is hitting close to 40c here at the moment and so far so good with my line 6 gear). Could you direct me to a link or site I can buy one from. Thanks, and Roger I hope you get it sorted soon. It's a fantastic piece of kit, and if what line 6 says is correct at 50c you should be failing before the mixer does. Lol :-)



Re: Big fan of (and for) the StageScape and a hint for owners
by dboomer on 2012-08-22 11:22:57

The part number for the rack ear kit is 98-036-0003.  You can order it from any Line 6 dealer.

They are in stock here in the USA.  I don't have the ability to say for other parts of the world.



Re: Big fan of (and for) the StageScape and a hint for owners
by Olyoly on 2012-08-23 00:30:57

Hello dboomer,

thx for the answer - but I can't find it . I tried nearly every Line6 Dealer you have linked on your homepage - nothing. Even a search on your homepage, using the part-no. showed no result. A google search for the part-no. only shows a bhphotvideo.com result ("shipped in 7 to 14 business days" - without any photo).

But maybe I'm doing something wrong.

By the way - I am in a very friendly contact with the L6 support concerning my "temperature problem" with the mixer - I will keep all readers informed.

Regards

Roger



Re: Big fan of (and for) the StageScape and a hint for owners
by Olyoly on 2012-08-27 23:17:58

Hi everyone,

end of last week I had a friendly telephonecall with the Line6 Support (thx Dietmar) and we decided to change the mixer at the store where I bought it. (Fortunately the store is not far away .) When I arrived at the store, they were allready informed by Line6 and I went away with a new mixer .

Once again thx to all at Line6 for the support.

Regards

Roger




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