davec69

I'm glad this mentality wasn't around in the day of the horse and carriage, or we'd all be carrying pooper scoopers around with us. Right Si? ;-) Let me just point out the fact that the M20D is upgrade-able via firmware, which tells me that Line 6 at least considered the ability to upload fixes and possible updates to the M20D. Otherwise, why add the extra cost? In addition, Line 6 has provided users with a nice Ideascale page on which we could upload ideas and suggestions. Idealscale is separate from their support page. It's a way for M20d (and other Line6 product users) to submit ideas for making the M20D a better product for users. Again, Take a look at some of the user feature requests added to the idealscale page. Is there anything on there that you would like to see added to your M20d? I know there are several, that I would love to see. My guess is that Line 6 / Yamaha agrees with the Colonel's statement of "If It Ain't Broke Don't Fix it", and have decided to cut their losses. Thank god (yeah I said it) for companies like QSC, who look to the future. One last question for the Colonel. If Line 6 popped out an update for the M20d tomorrow which added a few new features like Auto EQ option for mains via Mic input on M20d Tap tempo delay for stagescape m20d Save FBS settings with Setups on the M20d Screen Lockout Along with other fixes, would you update your M20d or stick to your "If it Ain't Broke Don't Fix it logic? "

Uhhhh.........?

Glad to hear that you are happy with the M20d. I would say that most owners, including myself, are very happy with the M20d as it is. This thread has never been about getting a particular fix or update, though a few people above have veered of in that direction. No, this thread has been about a very good product which could have been even better, with Line 6 and community support, but instead appears to be fading into oblivion, as it is passed by other products which attempt to do the same thing. I mentioned my Kemper Profiling Amp as an example. I purchased it around the same time that I purchased my M20d. Cost was about the same. We are now at v3.0 of the firmware for the Kemper. We've seen many new user requested features added to that product, and recently a new footcontroller released. Kemper doesn't even have anything fancy like Ideascale. Ideas are submitted by us users via the user forum which the Kemper folks actually paticipate in. I also just picked up a Eventide H9 Max. Great processor. I'm seeing similar activity around that unit. New effects releases, ect. I would have liked to see something similar happen with the M20d, but I'm guessing that we've seen the end of the development road map for this product. A shame if you ask me. How about this? Take a look at some of the user feature requests added to the idealscale page. Is there anything on there that you would like to see added to your M20d? I know there are several, that I would love to see.

Just had something similar happen to our band last weekend. Got to the gig, got everything setup, turned on the M20D, and only one channel of the mixer was outputting sound. restarted several times with no change. Eventually, I just created a new preset from scratch. After starting fresh, everything worked, but we were late getting the show started, and did not have any of our previously saved settings. This is not the first time that this has happened, there has to be some issue. For us, it's random. I haven't found a way to duplicate it.

I was more using the QSC Touchmix as an example of the level of development, support, user interaction that i expected from Line 6 and the M20D. QSC does do PA mostly, but not all. Their Q-sys systems, and install stuff is also big for them. Totally separate from the K series stuff. Not sure where you're going. Are you saying that it was unreasonable for me to include into my purchase decision that Line 6 would support and develop their PA line products as well as their other products?

I agree with you, the M20D had some great features from the start. It's a very usable mixer. Maybe it's easier for those who purchased their mixer after the price was lowered. As mentioned, our band was an early adopter of the M20D, and as such, we paid top dollar. When making purchases like the M20D, i do much research, to see what's out there, including visiting the forums, you tube, ect. There was much discussion on the future and possibilities with a M20D based system. In addition, Idealscale had many suggestions from users as to how to make the M20D better, and even more usable. With any digital based mixer, especially a new idea like the M20D, having a good support and development team behind it, who can respond to customers, is a really big part of my decision making process. Unfortunately, all of that early enthusiasm has seemed to fall on deaf ears, because after the early v1.20 udpate, nothing. Likely because of the purchase of Line 6 by Yamaha. Different priorities and such. Contrast that to a company like QSC with a similar product, active online community and developers who are listening to their users, and it's just a little disheartening. Not ready to give up on our M20D yet though. It is working for us, but had I known then, what I know now, i would have probably went another direction. On a separate note, and probably just Line 6 karma. Our band had a gig last weekend. Get everything setup, fire up the M20D, and nothing. No Sound. A couple restarts later, and we have one of the main out meters registering, but only very low output. Finally, I just scrapped that preset and created a new one from scratch, as the audience was sitting there. The new preset fixed the problem. I've read similar stories on this forum from others. it would be great to know someones working on that at least.

Seriously? Deserve? Wow! Not sure why you went there. Maybe something personal which I'll leave you to. My guess is that you've never been part of a vibrant product community in which people like us get together, hyped over a new product, we discuss it's pro's and cons, make suggestions which can make said product better for the users, The manufacturer then supplies a resource like idealscale for users to post those ideas which are reviewed and possibly implemented via.......don't get scared.......a new update. Afterwards, all the users can look at the new feature of the update and determine if they want to install it in there machine, or keep their machine at the same level as the day they bought it. Out of curiosity, i just checked the ideascale page which I and many others have posted and voted. It has the following statistics: Campaign usage statistics 95 ideas posted 162 comments 1929 votes Random ideas picks like: iPad StageScape App that doesn't disconnect Desktop App for StageScape Auto EQ option for mains via Mic input on M20d Tap tempo delay for stagescape m20d Save FBS settings with Setups on the M20d Add Features to Stagescape Record Function Screen Lockout Tuner These statistics above tell me that at least 95 users cared enough to post ideas, and got 1829 votes for those ideas. Unless they were included in update v 1.20, none have been implemented. This is just a few of the ideas from the first page of ideascale. To note, I did quite a bit of research prior to purchasing the M20d. Watched all the You Tube Namm videos with the Line 6 reps, read the reviews, ect. My expectations for this product was based on that research, and similar experience with other products.

While i understand your point, your 1939 D-18 Martin is not a digital mixer with upgrade capabilities. If it were, I can assure that it would have had an update by now. With that said, Martin has made countless updates to their dreadnought series of guitars. Including the limited edition Martin D-62. That's a lot of upgrades since the D18. Anyway, I'm not so much concerned about specific upgrades or updates, as I am about future development of the product that I own, which can help me make a decision as to whether or not I should keep it or sell it off before resale drops any further. Many of us who purchased the M20D early have already taken a big hit to our resale value due to price drops since release. It be nice to see a feature or two from the old ideascale added. 1. Buy something for what it does. Not what it might do, or you hope it might do later. 2. My 1939 Martin D-18 guitar has not had an 'upgrade' or 'update' yet. Not one! Imagine that. In over 70 years... 3. If there are specific problems that prevent a product working properly, then yes, those should be fixed - but added 'features' are a bonus. If you get more than you started with, then that is an 'extra' - but it is not a right and PA systems are not smartphones, tablets or computers. The expectations should not be the same. My excellent analog desks also never had (and never will) get an 'update' either. This does not stop them delivering very nice sounds to an audience. 4. If you have somthing and it works, and does the job you bought it for, great. If not - get something else. Problem solved. PA systems are not an "investment". If you want one of these, invest in pieces of paper. You can good returns - but they are lousy at amplifying bands on stage.

Hi Zap, you must be one of those helpful moderators that I mentioned. Ready to jump in at a moments notice and help a M20D user. Thanks for responding. I can assure you that what you may perceive as "moaning" from me, is not. If it were to the point that I had to "moan" about it, the M20D would have been gone a long time ago. There are other people on the forum who have posted about their troubles using the M20d. I'm sure you can find those posts with a quick search. My observation was more on the slow death of what looked like a really cool product, and really had everyone excited upon release. As an example, I was also a Kemper Profiling Amp early adopter. It came out around the same time as the M20d. It worked well upon release, but had a few bugs which were addressed fairly quickly. They coiuld have stopped there, but since that time, Kemper has added tons of new features, updates and abilities, released a new foot contoller this year, ect. This makes us Kemper customers very happy, and one really feels like they've made a good investment. Go, read the ideascale page that you provided the link for. Your an Uber Guru and Line 6 Expert, can you tell us users of one new feature from the list (that many of us users have provided) which is in the works, or on the way, as they say? Anything?

I could care less whether it has the Line 6 or Yamaha's name on it at this point. I'd just like to know if there are any plans for future support and development of the M20D mixer that i currently own.

I was one of the early adopters of the Line 6 M20D. I really had high hopes for for the future of this product, but it looks like it's fizzled out on the development front. We have one or two helpful moderators around here, but they are pretty much in the dark, like the rest of us. Don't get me wrong, the M20D a nice mixer, but I was really hoping for a more vibrant community, and much more product development. Maybe new features, fixes to some of the old issues, ect. But all we've gotten so far is............. Contrast that with the new QSC Touchmix. Visit their forum. They definitely have issues, but they also have someone listening, and addressing the customers. Their already on firmware 2.0. in the short time since release. We've barely got to v1.20. Sad really. I'm really hoping someone at Line 6 or Yamaha, or whoever supports the M20D now has a hail Mary planned to bring this community back to life.

We've had this exact thing happen to us at a couple different shows. Keyboard went crazy one night hissing and making strange noises. Next time it was the bass that started distorting uncontrollably. In our case, it turns out that the auto trim was cranking up the trim for some un-godly reason. Only a power off would correct it.

Likewise, I have seen nothing to backup your statement. Do you have some news about the M20D that you would like to share? Our band has owned the M20D since day one. At least a couple years. In that time, I've seen what? One update to the operating system. Check the forum, and you will find threads regarding bad Ipad connections, Random power off issues, blank audio tracks, intermittent sound, random sound loss, ect. None of which has been addressed. We really like our M20D, but unless you know something that we don't, this product seems to have been abandoned by Line 6 / Yamaha. I'm sure they'll come up some great replacement idea for it, but we won't be biting next time.

Just had this same thing happen on our bands last show. Recorded the first part of the show fine. Stopped the recording, and started to record the 2nd half of the show. Afterwards, the first folder audio files came out fine. The 2nd half of the show, I got all blank files. There's actually audio there. I've had luck in the past pulling up the audio in Sound Forge, by importing as raw data, and trying different import settings (bit rate, sample rate, ect) until I got it to work, but no luck this time. Just lost the audio for the 2nd half of the show. So frustrating. Unfortunately, the M20D seems to be a dead product now. Doubt there will be any fixes.

There's one cable going from the 5 Way switch to the PCB which has all the knobs on it. I don't see any obvious issues. There is an open socket on the PC Boards that has all the knobs on it. Is that normal? I plug that red an black wire with the connector, to the main PCB. One thing that I didn't try was spraying the cleaner from the inside. i just did a quick spray through the slot. Maybe I'll try that the next time I have it open. Here's a quick picture

I recently purchased a Variax 300 off Craigslist, and installed all of the software on my Windows 7 laptop. Everything is working fine for me. I haven't had any issues transferring sounds from the guitar to workbench via the POD XT Live which was included with the guitar. What interface are you using to connect the Variax 300 to your computer? Whatever it is, I would suggest plugging it directly into one of your computer USB ports, instead of through a hub?

I don't see anything that might be interfering with the switch. Is anyone still selling a replacement 5-way switch for the Variax 300?

Thanks, that's exactly what I did. Looks like the switch is having issues. When I put the switch in position 1, I get the sound from position 1. When I move the switch to position 2, WB shows no change. I am still on the position one 1 sound. When I move to position 3, the corresponding sound 3 is selected in WB. When I put the switch in position 4, WB jumps to the sound on position 5 When I put the switch in Position 5, no change. I opened up the guitar again, checked the connections, sprayed some contact cleaner on the switch, but still no change. Basically now I have a 3 way switch. I just moved my favorite patched to the 3 working positions. Anyone know where I can get a replacement 5-Way switch for the Variax 300? Charlie_Watt, on 02 May 2014 - 8:41 PM, said: Run WB and it will show you what model it thinks you have selected. That should tell you if the switches are working properly.

So I spent a little time last night, spinning the model select knob around last night, but I had no luck and finding any recognizable sounds. It appears that the different categories like acoustic, reso, ect are matching the correct position on the knob, but the variants which are selected by the 5 way switch are not correct. For example, in the spank position, it sounds like I'm getting the spank bridge sound, but when I switch to position 2, the sound is the same as position 1. Many of the instruments have similar glitches. So far, I've: Re-flashed the firmware Re-uploaded the complete bank. No luck yet. Tonight, I'm going to try uploading each variation one at a time to each instrument/position. If this doesn't work, I'm not sure what to do next. I,ll report back after I try tonight.

Thanks for the response. Yeah, I spun it around a few times before I realized that it was not going to stop. The stem and the knob are keyed. You can only put in on one way, so I thought it was ok, but maybe I spun it around so many times that it is now off and selecting different banks.

So I've tried restoring a backup of all my edited guitars to my Variax 300, and there was no change. I'm still getting different models in the various positions. Something must have happened when I had the guitar apart. One possibility that I can think of. When putting the guitar back together, I turned the model select switch while i had the knob off. I was thinking that the switch had a lock in both directions, since you can only turn it about 10 or 12 positions. I was wrong. The lock is actually a physical plastic tab on the knob. With the knob removed, you can spin the model switch around many times, which I did. Maybe I somehow turned the switch so many times that the models are not inig up with the descriptions written on the knob? The only thing that I can think to do now is to remove the model select knob and spin the switch stem around with my hand and see if I can find a recognizable sound. Then put the knob back on in the correct position. Any chance that someone had a similar experience? BTW, can the instrument select switch on the Variax 300 also be pushed for something? Like an on off switch, or is it only to select the different models?

Hello Marcel, Are you running the auto trim feature on the M20D before you record? The recording levels on the M20D are set by the trim (gain) settings on each channel. It does not matter where you set the volume level on the channel. The volume for each channel comes after all the other settings on the channel. The volume coming out of the main speakers can even be off and you should still get good levels going to the recording. If you've ever looked at the channel from a regular analog mixer from top to bottom, they look similar to this: Input Gain (Autotrim location on the M20D) Insert Pad EQ Aux Send FX Routing Pan Volume (Sets the volume coming out of the mains) There are many variations depending on the mixer, but most are similar. Notice that the gain is at the top. This is where you set the recording level (trim) on the M20D. The channel volume is at the bottom which happens after the gain is set. In our band, I run the Autotrim on every channel prior to a recording. This sets the highest recording for each channel. FYI. When running the auto trim, make sure each person is playing at their normal stage volume. I had a nasty experience at our last gig. I asked our bass player to play something so I could run autotrim. He did, but he had his amp set at a very low volume. Auto trim promptly cranked up the gain so his amp had a nice signal coming in. Then when the show started, the bass player cranked up his amp to the normal stage volume, and we had insant "In a Gadda Da Vida" fuzz going on. The moral. Make sure everyone autotrims at their regular stage volume. This can also happen in reverse, when the autotrim is set at a high level, then someone turns down their amp or instrument. The auto tracking should catch minor changes.

Been struggling with the sound of my newly acquired Variax 300 since I got it. Swapping the saddles definitely helped with consistency, but it was still dull sounding. Kind of muted sounding when played through the mini XPS into my amp. After reading through a few posts on this forum, I came across a few posts mentioning the variax 300 coffin problems. Apparently, the coffin which holds all of the pc boards inside the variax 300, can come in contact with the boards, causing interference. The cure is to paint or tape the coffin so the metal can't come in contact with the variax boards inside. I was kind of skeptical, but i had some time this past weekend, so I tore apart my guitar and covered the coffin inside and out with duct tape. I completely removed all of the boards and duct taped any area that could possibly come in contact with the boards or components. I then put everything back together, and sure enough, it fixed the problem that I was having with dull and lifeless sounds. My Variax 300 now sounds like I was expecting it to sound. Nice and clear. Very similar to the original instruments. I'm sure that the new Tyler models sound better, but i'm happy..........for now ;) Ireally like the r-Billy sounds now. I do have one weird negative. I have a few models now which have somehow changed to a different sounds. The Spank model for example sounds correct in the bridge position, but in position 2, I no longer get the same sound. I tried reflashing the firmware, but it didn't seem to make a difference. I'm going to try re-loading some of my saved sounds done prior to the duct taping, to see if that makes any difference. Any other ideas?

A suggestion that I would offer when chasing down feedback. Mute the other channels when ringing in a particular channel. I can't tell you the time that I've spent trying to get rid of feedback on one channel, only to find that an open mic or instrument somewhere else on the stage was actually feeding back while I was trying to dial in the first channel. Now I start by muting all the other input channels. Getting control of the feedback on the channel that I'm working on, then as a last step, unmute each of the other channel one at a time. If you get feedback when un-muting one of the other channels, then you can start on that channel for your next channel to test. Mute all of the other channel and repeat.

I did turn them down quite a bit. Down to 30 on each string. I'm guessing that's the place to do it right? I did see another post from someone about lowering the overall volume. Where is this done? In each model?