Paulzx

On 7/25/2020 at 12:59 AM, ddmilne said:

IF you cant easily connect to an amp or FRFR powered system without hours of fiddle lollipoping it is not an amp modeler. The amps they try to simulate have very few controls to work with and require little fuss. If you have to spend hours filtering out digital noise and trying to add coloration to get a pleasing sound to one patch aloe, yet still never getting a natural amp sound with flexibility. what is the point.

You can try to embarrass as many as you want in this forum because you are tone deaf and never actually ever played any of these amp models. The truth is that Helix , Boss GT1000,Fractal Audio and Kemper   all lack real true analogue quality of the real deal . I truly wish that were not true. I have had all of them, quite thankfully being able to return them to the dealer.

Lets be honest, There is too much discontinuity between manufactures to select one multi effects amp modeler with another front end amp or powered monitor.  While one sounds great though a FRFR system it sounds like crap piped to the front show and vice versa. At best this a patch by patch analysis. Analogue sound, digital control is the best you can get. That isnt even perfect.

 

We have a long way to go. So save your money and wait until these guys come to the plate with a real system worth the money

Slightly surprised to read this. I could write a book on my struggles with the Helix but most of the issues were down to things I was doing, most notably using the wrong speakers. It's all about the output device and then on from that, how you EQ the sound. The Helix is totally capable of sounding good. There are people with demo videos that have it sounding fantastic in fact. I don't know their particular methods but it sounds very good.

Personally, I don't think most people really care if various amp models sound exactly like the real amps, I don't think people are chasing that. I think what most of us want are a collection of different amp sounds that just sound good when you play them, if they're a bit off from the real thing who cares, as long as what you've got sounds good?

If you're suggesting that the Helix or any other modeller can't sound great - irrespective of accuracy of the actual modelling - that's not really true is it?

8 hours ago, codamedia said:

When I hear some isolated guitar tracks from recordings I'm usually surprised at how much "fizz" is often there. I also find that when I prep a tone at home I hear the artifacts I don't like but they serve a purpose in a live situation and help the guitar cut through. Perfect, sweet tones are not always the answer :) 

 

That said, I hate fizz and tend to try and get rid of it myself. This is my experience, YMMV.  

• Presence often adds more fizz than treble so I will tend to use treble to shape the tone, and add presence only as needed. 
• Stay away with anything with a bright cap..... 
• If using IR's, lean toward the ones with the mic position "off center"... FWIW I usually prefer a position about half way between center and edge. The center of a speaker is "all fizz" to my ears. 
• Ditch the big EQ's and go simple. Add the TILT EQ after the cab/IR block, then dial it back toward the dark setting. It's actually a fairly subtle EQ, so don't be afraid to get aggressive if required. 
• Throw the "Rochester Comp" near the end of the chain... anywhere after the cab/IR. The default setting is really loud so you might need to turn the output level of the compressor down... then set the gain reduction so it is barely coming on. This is a great studio style compressor that adds some magic sauce to the signal, and really tames artifacts such as fizz. 

* Disclaimer: I am not a high gain player so our experiences with fizz might be quite different. 

Thanks mate, I like the sound of these suggestions.

I have a love hate relationship with the presence control. Like you say it definitely adds fizz, I went through a period of time of putting that to zero on all my tones which to be fair, did sound more authentic but then I started adding it back in, in small doses because I was losing a bit of aggression in the tone.

I'll try the TILT eq.. Great idea, never really tried it.

Like the sound of the Rochester compressor, never used that either

Thanks for the suggestions!

One of the running battles I have with helix high gain amps, single or dual, is that the stock cabs all sound a little bit lifeless to me but they are a bit toned down on the high end which is useful. The IRs when you first hear them sound bigger, fuller and more lively but also quite fizzy, which I find hard to tame just by cutting the highs because it ends up sounding like a transistor radio if you go too far, even then the high strings on the guitar sound too thin and treble.

I find it quite hard to tame that even using the eq blocks. It just seems quite difficult to me to eq a great high gain sound so the highs are not thin sounding but I will admit I'm no sound engineer! If anyone has any suggestions I would be eager to try them out or if anyone has discovered a really good method to eq the high gain  sounds I would love to know.

23 hours ago, ThisIsFunk said:

 

Yeah, you gotta find what works best for you.  I would just say consider two things about the FM3 before buying.  I thought three foot switches on the FM3 would be enough if you can control different pedals in different presets in stomp mode, set per preset (programmable like Helix)….  You can’t (at least no way I can find)!!!!!! THEY ARE GLOBAL meaning when you set Stomp 1 to “drive 1” in stomp mode it is always drive 1, even if you don’t have a drive pedal on that preset… that stomp then becomes useless when in Stomp mode for some presets.   With the FM9 many people set it so the top right three stomps jump between presets, stomp mode, and scenes with the bottom six then controlling variables in each each (very similar to Helix setup which is awesome).  

Also, FM9 can do two amps.  Just one amp on the FM3 absolutely sounds amazing with the quality  and is truly enough, but a two amp setup sometimes can work wonders for tone and sound.  I find that on the Helix, all of the best preset files I’ve downloaded from others online all had a two amp setup, with each amp panned hard to the opposite side.  I’m looking forward to trying that on theFM9.

 

Again, everyone has different needs, so the FM3 could be the best for you, just things to consider…..  Best of luck on your choosing.

I expect a lot of folks got the extra foot switch device to use with fm3, I would probably do the same eventually.

I was aware fm9 can do dual amps whereas fm3 can't, obviously Helix can do dual amps or IRs, but it's interesting you say your best downloaded tones were dual amp because I've never found any that I thought were any better than single amp, but I may try this again, can you recommend any?

22 hours ago, datacommando said:

That could be a very long wait.
Quote from Digital Igloo, over on TGP -

There will be no "Helix 2."

 

That followed on from his comment regarding firmware updates.

”Well, we didn't spend all that time and energy building Helix Core just to extend the family's life by two or three updates.”

Interesting to know and to be fair line 6 do pretty well with updates so I think if they find a way of just improving some of the sounds now and then, it would be enough

On 10/1/2021 at 8:22 AM, ThisIsFunk said:

I have Helix LT and an Axe FM3.  When I “upgraded” from Amplutube 5 to Helix I was underwhelmed.  Don’t get me wrong, I love them both they’re absolutely awesome, but I felt like the sounds were comparable to AT5 quality.  Then I got my FM3 and the first chord I played…. sounded absolutely amazing, so organic.  I’ll be selling my FM3 soon to get the FM9 (because only three foot switches isn’t enough and it’s global, not per preset, which was a turn off after I bought it, the FM9 fixes that issue).  Helix/Fractal both have their purposes.  I still often use my Helix LT though with my Variax, that setup is so incredibly awesome and I love Line6 for that!  I think Fractal wins on tones, but Helix wins on versatility and possibilities.

This is interesting. Looking at the fm9 has actually steered me towards the fm3 for a number of reasons and I do believe the fm3 is a better sounding unit particularly for high gain tones, than the Helix. I'm going to order one and do a direct comparison.

My requirement is a bit different because although I like the versatility of the Helix, it's not more important than the tones and I'm on a mission to get the best high gain tones, I've never been fully happy with the Helix on this front but that's just me, I realise others get what they need out of it.

To further muddy that issue, I've also discovered there are ways to make the Helix sound better and it all comes down to the output device.

Sadly, I had been using Alto TS212 speakers which although recommended at the time, are in fact lollipop for using with helix. Having swapped to smaller yamaha monitor speakers, the Helix has come alive more, so at the moment I'm looking at getting the Helix to sound as good as it can.

Thats a warning to anyone using these alto speakers.. they're great for music play back but not guitar. Way too much bottom end and way too muddy, it kills your tone

4 hours ago, datacommando said:

Maybe you could visit your local guitar store and check out your PC1 against another. That is only if they have one in stock of course.

Yep I think I need a direct comparison really.

18 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Well I'm out of ideas, then.... it's obviously not the guitar, as it works with other amps. Yet at the same time, it's hard to blame the Helix because your other instruments don't produce the same symptoms. 

 

You could always throw a gain block at the front of the chain... it's "inexpensive" in terms of DSP, and might help some...but what's causing the problem is beyond me. I own a dozen guitars, with a variety of pickup types, configurations, some old, some new, etc...and I've never experienced anything remotely like what you're describing.

Same here, I own seven guitars and yet the most expensive one is the one that just doesn't sound right! In an ideal world I would borrow another PC1

and see if it's the same but of course that is a bit impractical as I don't know anyone locally with one. I'll try the gain block idea though.

In a really desperate attempt to get a better result, I might change these Alto speakers for something smaller. I've never felt the Alto's were giving me the

best sound anyway, and they are big PA speakers for a home setup. I know.. clutching at straws again!!

Yep it remains a mystery, I tried the PC1 in my spider 2 amp and although i don't really like the sound coming out of that amp,

the guitar is hotter and more punchy.

The go to method on helix for high gain patches has always been - add a screamer distortion pedal at zero gain, to front of chain, followed by your high gain

amp block plus whatever cab or IR, that method has worked for the most part with my other guitars, but with the PC1 I'm finding that I either want to crank the

gain on the screamer, or the amp block itself, up to max - or even add a second distortion pedal to the chain!

I never normally do any of that, but with the PC1 it's just lacking punch in the high gain and I end up trying the above, that shows you how underwhelming

it is, yet the guitar itself has a reputation of being the opposite!

20 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

I won't pretend to be able to diagnose your problem remotely... all anyone can do is offer guesses. But this is really grasping at straws and  doesn't make any sense at all. With few exceptions, guitar pickup technology hasn't changed appreciably in decades...a humbucker is a humbucker. There's no earthly reason that "old pickups" won't work properly with a modeler. I have several guitars that are more than 20+ years old, with all the original electronics, and they work just fine with Helix, and any other modelers or plug-ins that I've used in recent years.

 

 

 

 

Agreed, like if I was to put that super 3 in another guitar it would work perfectly but in this guitar it's a bit lame. I think they were suggesting it might be just the internal sustainer electronics not being properly compatible with newer electronic devices.

I don't know, it does seem like a stretch doesn't it? I've actually got a DT50 combo I don't use, I'll try it in that too

3 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

I seriously doubt there's anything wrong with the pickups  themselves...its hard to destroy guitar pickups unless you actually try. There could be any number of wiring/ toggle switch/ input jack issues however, that having nothing to do with the pickups themselves. You might also have a simple setup/ pickup height issue. If you're not familiar with what goes on under the hood, take it to someone who is.

 

But no matter what the cause of the symptoms may be, someone else's subjective assessment of the same guitar's performanc cannot even remotely be considered a "direct comparison", and it won't help you gain much insight into what's going on with your particular instrument. If you really want to compare the pickups' output to those in another instrument, get a multimeter and measure the outputs... that's the only way to know if one is actually hotter than the other.

 

Failing that, you could just plug the PC1 into something other than Helix, and see if it still sounds anemic... if not, then the problem is not likely the guitar, though this is a far less scientific approach as it introduces other variables.

Yep, had a few of the same thoughts, I mean when I say compare how it sounds, I know that usually is very subjective, but seriously, I'm not even in subjective

territory with this guitar because the high gain output is so underwhelming even compared to my newer JS32 budget guitar, I shouldn't be hearing that or even

thinking it. Most people's experience with that Dimarzio in this guitar seems to be that it's too hot and high gain, so there's definitely something off here.

On another forum for Jackson guitars, someone mentioned it's probably the electronics in the older Jackson, seemingly not working properly with the newer modellers,

whereas the newer PC1's electronics presumably are updated and do work as expected. I don't know yet if there's any truth in that, it is true that the guitar is one of the older models

and the Helix relatively new, the newer JS32 works fine so maybe there is something in that.

I'll try it through through something different like you've suggested, I've got an older Spider 3 amp somewhere at home, will try that.

Is anyone here using a Jackson PC1 with their Helix?

I think I might have a problem with the guitar actually because those bridge pick ups are Dimarzio super 3's I think and they are supposed

to be very hot and aggressive, yet my high gain tones sound a bit under powered when I use the PC1.

When i use my budget Jackson JS32, the same high gain patches sound really good, so unless I need a different approach to get a PC1 

to sound any good with a Helix, there must be a problem with that pick up surely? I wondered if anyone else here was using a PC1

so I could get a direct comparison/opinion etc?

17 hours ago, codamedia said:

I'm sure it will be a great sounding unit... I'm happy for Fractal on their latest release. 

My thoughts, just in case anyone really cares :) 

• Those so interested in price need to factor in an expression pedal... if that is something you use. 
• With 3 less "useable" footswitches (than a Helix) it limits the live control. Maybe not for everyone, but it would for me. 
• Competition is good.... it keeps both Fractal and Line 6 progressing. For that reason, I fully embrace this product even if I don't believe I will ever buy/use one. 
• Modeling matured over the last decade. IMO, the sounds are already great.... it's now just down to variations and features. 
  • The Amp World and Pedal world are NO DIFFERENT! Everything matured long ago so now it's just variation upon variation with the odd new feature (and sometimes a "killer feature") rolled in. 
  • The Keyboard world went through this by 1990 or shortly after. I think watching that happen in real time has helped me recognize that point has already arrived with modeling. 
  • Some people will not be able to live without the new features, and some will be happy with what they have. Just like some need a Boogie Mark V and a massive pedal board while others are more than happy with a Fender '65 Deluxe with no effects. 

It's a great time to be a guitar player.... EMBRACE IT! 

Agree with this really. I always find it a bit odd when people bash the competition in an effort to defend their own loyalty or purchase, when in the case of the Helix, 

let's be honest, you need to hit it out of the park to beat that, but it's good to know what the competition is doing.

As others have mentioned, value for money cannot be beaten on the Helix right now and I for one wouldn't even consider changing to a vaguely similar unit just

because it's new. literally the only thing that interests me about Fractal gear, is the quality of the tones it produces. If the FM9 turns out to be vastly better in terms

of the guitar sound it produces, then I want to know about it because as most guitar players, we want the best sounding stuff within a realistic budget.

It's interesting to see how the FM9 goes down once more people have bought it. Initially on some Fractal forums, I've seen conversations where people

were comparing it unfavourably to the Helix! It's just interesting to know that's all.

20 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

How dare you bring logic to a perfectly good assumption-fueled, hand wringing panic? ;)

 

I don't think anyone is panicking, it is just an interesting story to discuss because some people may at least be more mindful of it when playing live in hot weather, and indeed

some people will hopefully remember to take a back up having read something like this.

We should be able to have an objective discussion about these things at the end of the day, I don't think it will dent the Helix sales ;)

21 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Nobody's saying that one's backup must be identical to their main rig. Mine certainly isn't...I don't own a second Helix, and I don't plan to... but you simply must have something else to use in a pinch, no matter what it costs... because if you gig enough, sooner or later something will crap out at the worst possible moment. On a long enough timeline, it's an absolute certainty.

Totally agree. It's a scary thought either way though, the thought of the failure, then the thought of trying to get going with a back up lol. Looking past the initial problem with the Helix and what may have caused it, I too was a bit surprised that the OP didn't appear to have a back up particularly in what seemed to be a big show at least.

Agree.. to a degree! 

I was going to say the same thing, was there a back up unit? I guess not everyone has the funds to duplicate these units maybe, and even if he did have a spare unit, unless

you run that ready to go instantly, you'll still suffer the embarrassment of having to drop out of the show briefly, but yes, the back up is an obvious omission in the story, the failure

of the unit though, is a bit scary and it's relevant because clearly, in certain circumstances, the Helix has a vulnerability most of us didn't know about, whatever that was.

I think if it happens again, you have to look at whether the unit is reliable enough to use full stop. It just sounds like a nightmare scenario.

On 8/30/2021 at 10:55 AM, datacommando said:

From the G66.eu website:

 

“The price in Europe should be about EUR 1899-1999 (GBP 1599-1699) including VAT and 3-years' warranty.” 

 

but remember there is a waiting list, they’re not available yet, so maybe the price will change when it hits the streets. 

 

Meanwhile a Helix floor model is available now in the U.K. for £1,149.00.

 

Check here:

 

https://www.peachguitars.com/line-6-helix-floor-tour-grade-guitar-processor.htm?opt=11321

 

Gear 4 Music are slightly more expensive at £1,299, but they have 4 available in stock now.

 

https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Line-6-Helix/1AFI

 

Just saying…

Helix was around £1400 over here when I looked before but either way, they've tried to put it in the same price point as Helix obviously,

as I said before though, it would have to be A LOT better than a Helix to tempt me. Be interesting if someone here can get a demo on one

14 hours ago, phil_m said:

Not to be nit-picky, but the Helix Floor is selling for $1499 in the US now. They moved some production from China, so they were able to avoid the tariffs that had raised the price since the initial introduction.

In the UK though, the fractal works out a bit cheaper than a new Helix at the moment. Fractal have obviously targeted the Helix this time around. I think Helix must dominate the market share for floor processors and fractal now want a piece of that

18 hours ago, theElevators said:

Helix is more user-friendly for me.  Both processors have the same capabilities.  At this point as a Helix user, there are no sounds that the Helix does not have, which I need. 

 

Which one is better?  It's just about the capabilities, processing power, etc.  Even though as far as I'm concerned, the Helix is doing just fine with processing power, maybe except poly shift -- there's a slight lag.  There's a song where I transpose my whole guitar a step down and it is is noticeably "not together" with my picking.  

 

One more thing...  Fractal just has a reputation of being professional touring gear.  Line 6 does not for most.  I used to scoff when I saw somebody using a Line 6 Spider amp, for example.  Now obviously, I'm a Line 6 Helix fan and don't plan on switching to anything.  With any guitar processor, once you start using it and spend 100s of hours dialing in your presets, it'd be crazy to abandon it all and start from scratch.  Unless of course you just use a pedalboard approach, then it's not so bad.  I have 55 presets that I spent countless hours perfecting and am planning on continuing to use them for a long time. 

I think in your position as a gigging player, that is the only way to go, you've obviously got helix set up perfectly for what you're doing. I'm not playing live so it's different for me but you are right, at the end of the day we all have a time investment with helix one way or another

Had a deeper look at this fractal, so it's a floor unit very similar to helix, they've obviously tried to copy it. It does all the same stuff from what I can see. My question now is, if this thing is bringing axe fx 3 quality tones with it, it could be too good to ignore.

It's so new that I don't think anyone knows much about it yet. I hope line 6 have got another good update for helix soon though. Better tones straight out of the box would be good. That is the one criticism I have of the Helix, it does require a bit of tweaking to get anything really good. We're all used to it by now but new comers may be underwhelmed at first.

I still think helix is the best thing out there right now though, at this price point. The fractal would have to be a decent step up to challenge it in my opinion.

27 minutes ago, rvroberts said:

Yep - the price will be interesting to know.

I'm sure it's a serious competitor - but I'm invested in the Helix world, so it will have to do something fantastic to make me think about what I expect to be substantial dollars.

For new digital take up and people wanting to upgrade from a pod Go or something else lower spec'd if the dollars are competitive, it might start to take significant market share.

Competition is good for us all - sooner or later there will be a device that's enough of a step forward we will all find we start to get GA$!!

Is this it?

Agree..just seen the price though.. 1600 dollars or 1100 pounds, which makes it cheaper than a Helix! How the he'll did that happen. Since when does fractal beat line 6 on price?

On 8/9/2021 at 3:49 PM, wjoyce said:

If for no other reason, do it for the planet.

You're more likely to get an alien invasion before switching off the Helix having any effect on the planet. It might have an effect on your electric bill lol

Anyone checked this out yet? Looks like fractals attempt at a direct helix competitor to me.

It looks amazing in the demo video but they all do don't they!

Have to admit I'm intrigued but I doubt it will knock helix off the top spot, which I firmly believe it does occupy because you simply can't buy anything as good as a helix for the same money, and knowing fractal gear, it will be top notch but it will be expensive.

Has anyone tried one yet?

20 hours ago, MGW-Alberta said:

I don't know if this is possible or not but I'm just wondering if anyone knows if there are different colored plastic jack nuts available anywhere for the 1/4" jacks on the back of Helix Floor.  I'm thinking it would make setting up a Helix rig a lot faster and more fool-proof if the cables and jacks were color coded.  I want to build a loom (or snake) so there is only one bundle of cables, kept together with heat shrink, on the floor going to my amp for the four cable method rather than having a mess of unruly cables creating multiple things to step on or trip over.  I was thinking about the possibility of using different colors of nail polish but I suspect that could fall off.

Steve Sterlacci on youtube has done it, check out his recent live gig setup videos, he's done the exact thing you're talking about