Wondo100

Ok. So I got two PC+ today. I have not opened the other one yet, so I can make sure these things sound good. I am kind of getting that blanket over the speaker effect that I have noticed with modeling. Are there some tricks to getting this thing to sound right? I kept the volume knob on the cab down and then played some stuff to dial in the green to orange setting. I turned off the Low Cut switch in the back. I tilted the amp to get it off of the floor a bit. I am running it through the L6 Link cable I have downloaded the latest update for PC+. Some of the stock cabs in the PC+ sound muffled like I am in the other room listening to it. I loaded an IR and that sounded pretty good, but I cannot imagine that the stock cabs would be that bad from jump. Any ideas, greatly appreciated.

I am checking on this now, but even if I could get Helix to control it, I certainly hope I can make it sound better. As it stands now, I do not see how anyone likes these things.

I have to be doing something wrong. Just Got two PC+. Fortunately, have not hooked up the other one yet. When does the blanket get removed from the cabinet? I have tried Flat and speaker cabs. It sounds like there is a horse blanket laying over top of the cabinet. Am I not able to control this from the Helix with L6 cable hooked up? Unless something changes, these are going back very soon.

Oh, and thanks for sending a ticket. When I switch amps out, it still does it in the old configuration. I suspect it is a bug in the system. Hopefully, it is not my Helix unit. I got at the end of 2019 and had my first real chance to start working with this set up in March. So, it is still a new unit (still has the plastic on the main display and scribble strips in case I had to turn around and sell it). I am expecting two PC+ to arrive in a few days to try them out with a return option. Not sure if this will make for a good situation, or create more headaches. If I can replicate what I am looking for with Power Cabs, then I might go that route. I chose Rush Hemispheres as the patch to build, because if I could get that to work, then anything is possible. Alex was not that sophisticated on stage (nor was there the same technology) in 1978 as was available to him in the later years. However, I am trying to duplicate the sound on the Hemispheres album Cygnus X-1. He uses an overdriven sound, then a clean sound on top of the overdriven sound with an overdubbed acoustic, then just pure clean with acoustic. With my Les Paul Axcess that has hum buckers and Piezo with separate output for Piezo, I need to be able to blend these all together. With 7CM, I have Path 1 in Helix go to the amp that is overdriven, Path 2 goes to amp that is clean and the third path is the Piezo which goes out to a Fishman Loudbox. That gets the tone since with each snapshot, I can change the settings on the amp if needed like I do with the clean amp to give it more drive in one of the parts. I do not know if I can do something like this with the PC+. Might need some help. Thanks!

Thanks qwerty42. I really appreciate it. Also appreciate both you and rd2rk taking the time to help. I feel like this is the place to get some answers!! Yes it was the Return that was going in to the red. Interestingly, it does not do it on the other amp in the usual configuration. Therefore, I could use it like this: Path 1: Guitar In> Dynamics, Dist., Mod, etc. >FX Send 1, FX Return 3> Volume Block, time-based effects, etc.> 1/4" out Panned all the way to the Left Path 2. Guitar In> Dynamics, Dist., Mod, etc. >FX Loop2> Volume Block, time-based effects, etc.> 1/4" out Panned all the way to the Right This still leaves me with FX Loop 4 to use if I need to. So, if it is the amp (GM 36) I am not sure why this would be doing this. It works fine, no sounds indicating bad tubes, although it has been a few years since I changed out the tubes. My other amp (GM 40) is less than a year old and I just put all new JJ tubes in there yesterday to replace the weak Chinese tubes. In the GM 36, I have Tung Sol preamp tubes in all three slots and then TAD power amp tubes. I am not sure which of the tubes if any are related to the FX Loop. Although, I will really have to experiment with Path 2 to make sure it is not doing this either. I found a schematic from a H&K forum about 4CM and they are saying to do it with separate Send/Return

OK. So, first method under preset Hemiis_Snd1_Ret1 gets same results with clipping. Hemis_Snd1_Ret3 does not get the clipping, although the sound is a bit robbed in fullness of tone between FX loop on my amp and off. I think I have some headroom though to remedy this. I believe that this is what rd2rk was having me try, but maybe I missed something in that because it was not working when I did that, I may have got some cabling mixed up. So, now what does this tell us? Am I going to have to set it up like this? If so, I have to use all of my FX loops to run 7CM??

Thanks. I will try this in a little bit when I can turn things up to get the results. I will let you know soon, Thanks for your help.

Ok. I will give this a try. When you say amps send and return cabling, should I keep the cabling the way I have it in the picture I posted below? Or should I do something different? On another note, I thought that to bypass all of this 7CM complication that I would just get two Power Cab 112s and run through the L6 Link cable, but that would mean I am relying on the amp models in Helix to do this and when I try to set things up to do this, I run out of DSP space. In other words it would seem that in order for me to use snapshots and be able to have two amps running one in clean, the other overdriven and then in the next snapshot have both overdriven with the Piezo mixed in and then move to an all clean sound on both amps with Piezo mixed in, the only way to do this is with my external amps because they are fully programmable and each snapshot can send a CC to the amps to bring up the desired amp sound. Doing this within Helix with models only and no FX loops, I cannot do this.

I would be interested in how you are doing acoustic tones. I have a Les Paul Alex Lifeson Axcess (Humbuckers and Piexo)and want to run a path that has a dirty humbucker on one, a cleaner on the other and then my Piezo. I am really not sure how to do that and be able to have room to run some IRs, but then again if I use the PC+, I won’t need room on the path for IRs, they will be in the PC

Yes. I am using 2.92. When I spoke with Line 6, they thought that the effects loop issue was a bug and would be fixed in the next update. That was about a week before 2.92. That did not fix anything, and it was not listed in the release notes. I do not notice any sound that would indicate clipping. What I notice is that the fx loop block turns read when I am playing. I am using Helix floor and it is pretty much a brand new unit. All new cables.

That does not work. Robs tone even more. I have padded the guitar input and then adjusted the send levels which is kind of silly because the send is actually going into the front of the amp, so I am padding a pad as it were. That seems to allow the FX Loop clipping to not happen as often, but it still does when strumming hard, but maybe that is normal. This configuration does not rob tone. I also ended up turning the big volume knob on the Helix all the way up.

OK I will give this a try if it works, I essentially use all of my effects loops up for this arrangement

Can I have path A send 1 and return 1 and Path B send 2 and return 2 to keep the same 7CM wiring as the picture in my above post?

I never did that. Would I just put the send right before the return kind of like I have now with just the loop? I do not think I tried that. As far as PC, I am going to try them. If I like them, I would not sell the GMs. Probably just use one and keep the other as back up, unless I can sell one at some point. What do you think of the PC?

Thanks rd2rk. I really do appreciate all of your help. You have been great. Both amps are Grandmeisters. Even though one is a 36 and one is a 40. They are pretty much the same amp. I had Powercabs on order and then cancelled because I really want to use my amps, but I ordered them to avoid exactly what I am experiencing. Do you think I should go ahead and get the power cabs? If I play out I would never run both of these GMs anyway that would drive me and the soundman crazy. I would just run 4CM and use either a HX Effects or a MS 3 (if I want it simple) I am just trying to use the Stereo set up in the studio to get multiple amp tones and use my Piezo. As far as clipping. The sound is just fine as far as I can tell, it is just that the block keeps turning red on Path A on the clean tones on snapshot 3. Thanks, Bill

Wish this thread was continued. I have the same issue with Helix and no matter what I do, the clipping keeps happening. FX Loop Block is red. I had talked to Line 6 and they said this was a known issue and it would be addressed in the next update, but that update just came out and no fix.

Thank you again for doing this! I have moved these levels up and down at nauseam. It still clips no matter what I do on Snapshot 3 the clean channel.

It is snapshot 3, that is clipping. The Clean Snapshot. The first two are fine. Always have been.

Yup. No matter what I do, it is there. Only if I turn down the channel volume on the amp does it work and we are talking about half way down from where it is now. Why would I want to rob my tone this way? I can bring send, return 1/4" levels down on the helix as well as big volume knob and it is still there. I can even put a volume gain right after the FX loop, on the signal path. Turn it on so that no signal is going to my amp, dead quiet and the FX Loop Block still clips red on the Helix.

Ok. Still getting the same problem. The first two snapshots with my overdrive sounds on the amp are not a problem. It is the clean channel that is causing it. Even when I switch the loops around it still does it in the other loop, so it is not the amp. I am getting to the point of giving up. I have been working on this for weeks now. I cannot get it to stop clipping

Thanks! This looks good. I am going to try this now. I noticed the second Signal path with the second FX Loop is -10db. I don't think I had it like that before. I am not sure what you mean when you said you tied the output block levels to the fx loop bypass switches.

Here is the preset (attached below). I took out the two return blocks that were there. I had them there because I was experimenting if having a separate send and return would help. I did not notice much, but not sure if I set it up right. Wish I could get this sorted out. I don't notice any clipping in the sound, but I am sure it is not supposed to be like this. You will notice that the 1/4" outs are both boosted by +3db. The 1/4 outs go to the amps FX Returns. This was the setting that matched the amp volume between FX loop on or off. I tried putting these back to 0 and the clipping still occurs. YMMV Also included a picture of how I have the 7CM set up. Thanks! Hemispheres.hlx

rd2rk, Thanks for this. I am using Two H&K Grandmeisters one is the 36 and one is the 40. The one that is clipping is the 36 on a clean channel. Both amps use a serial FX Loop. I believe that the Master volume is after the FX Loop. I do not think it is sending back a line level. I believe it is at instrument level. I have tried messing with the send, return and 1/4 levels and that can make the clipping go away but then the amps sound like poop because when I switch off the FX loops on the amp they go back to their normal level which sounds great. I am including a picture of my signal path and a picture of the manual which outlines levels for FX loop of the amp. If I can get this issue under control, it will be awesome because my set up is pretty sweet. Thanks.

Thank you. On the particular snapshot where it is clipping, all of the effects before the FX loop are off. It is a clean channel on my amp. My overdriven channels are not clipping.

IN 4CM the FX Loop Block is clipping red. Big Volume Knob is at 12:30 All outputs seem fine. Instrument level.