mikeolivercgp Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 What computer are you using? Maybe that's your problem since is it is common between the two Helix units. Maybe try a different USB port or cable. Updating back to 1.04.2 shouldn't be any different than updating to 1.04.3, so it sounds like there's something unreliable between you computer and Helix. I wasn't able to install 1.04.2 either. After repeated failed attempts with 1.04.2, I was able to restore to 1.04.1. However, courtesy of efforts to update to the 1.04.3 release, I can't even restore to an earlier version because the Helix can't get beyond the boot screen. It sits on the boot logo screen while displaying 28 in a red font in the upper left corner of the screen. I've tried every factory reset combination of foot switches that Line 6 has indicated with no success. As someone who worked for 17 years as an application developer for a multinational IT services company, I am stunned that Line 6 has made no provision for preventing the rendering of one's Helix into a useless $1,400 paperweight. Whether I persist with this product or return it for a refund (and a subsequent purchase of either a Kemper or Fractual Audio product) is contingent on how quickly Line 6 resolves this at no expense to me. Compared to other L6 products I've used in the past (which have been highly reliable), the Helix has been disappointing. I'm just glad I didn't attempt the update before an event I played for ~1500 people on Christmas Eve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 All those failed updates are likely leaving Helix in a bad state. I don't know how the updates are done, but I would guess that there is no writing to Helix memory until the whole image has been downloaded from USB since that would be the most unreliable link in the update chain. You would think there would also be some checksum at least to verify that the image was downloaded without error. But if something was causing Helix to crash while updating its internal memory, say a faulty unit or turning the power off, then this might cause Helix to be unable to boot. I'd guess Line 6 has a way of restoring such units, but there may be nothing us users can do if a unit gets in this state. So far I've had no problems updating - done it 3 times now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozbadman Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 But if something was causing Helix to crash while updating its internal memory, say a faulty unit or turning the power off, then this might cause Helix to be unable to boot. It should never be able to be put in a state that cannot be recovered. This is pretty standard stuff on all sorts of devices these days. If it truly can get into a bricked state, they need to fix their boot loader. This should be impossible unless the hardware is faulty, and by that I mean blown up chips. Turning the power off during an update should never brick the unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavierb Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I ended up returning Helix at the store, the new one worked for the last 3 firmware updates. Eventually tried to upgrade to 1.04.3 a couple of days ago and the firmware failed - but I was somehow able to got back to 1.04.2 and decided to leave it there for now. Updating the firmware on Helix is definitely not a foolproof process in my experience :( Just a follow up: I was able to update to v1.06 and it worked first go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fukuri Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I wasn't able to install 1.04.2 either. After repeated failed attempts with 1.04.2, I was able to restore to 1.04.1. However, courtesy of efforts to update to the 1.04.3 release, I can't even restore to an earlier version because the Helix can't get beyond the boot screen. It sits on the boot logo screen while displaying 28 in a red font in the upper left corner of the screen. I've tried every factory reset combination of foot switches that Line 6 has indicated with no success. As someone who worked for 17 years as an application developer for a multinational IT services company, I am stunned that Line 6 has made no provision for preventing the rendering of one's Helix into a useless $1,400 paperweight. Whether I persist with this product or return it for a refund (and a subsequent purchase of either a Kemper or Fractual Audio product) is contingent on how quickly Line 6 resolves this at no expense to me. Compared to other L6 products I've used in the past (which have been highly reliable), the Helix has been disappointing. I'm just glad I didn't attempt the update before an event I played for ~1500 people on Christmas Eve. As someone who has similar experience in IT you must have missed all the sans and blade chassis I've seen bricked by bad firmware updatesAs you should know. It's impossible to account for ever single permutation. And IBM, HP, Microsoft and Apple have VASTLY more resources for doing this kind of thing and they still have issues like this with Firmware (we lost a couple of surfaces last week with Firmware updates). I don't think it's as boggling as you do to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeolivercgp Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 As someone who has similar experience in IT you must have missed all the sans and blade chassis I've seen bricked by bad firmware updates As you should know. It's impossible to account for ever single permutation. And IBM, HP, Microsoft and Apple have VASTLY more resources for doing this kind of thing and they still have issues like this with Firmware (we lost a couple of surfaces last week with Firmware updates). I don't think it's as boggling as you do to be honest Agreed... Although, that brings up one of my favorite jokes: "How many software application developers does it take to change a light bulb? Zero -- that's a hardware problem..." The Helix isn't a product targeted to certified IT hardware/software professionals. It's a product for regular folks... Therefore, every consideration should be given to ensuring that guitar playing users, who are not IT professionals, can reliably update their investment. I could understand if the nature of this update was similar to what I experienced several years ago updating the firmware in a Digitech 2120 where I had to open the unit, don a grounding strap, extract an EPROM chip from its socket, and install a new EPROM chip with the latest update (my only other alternative was to have an authorized service center perform the update). BTW, there is an update to my story. The original Helix unit I received was defective (which is why it became a paperweight). Line 6 quickly replaced it. The new unit has so far behaved as it should, including no problems installing the recent 1.06 release. I do appreciate Line 6's effort in resolving this issue for me (thanks Line 6!!). :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavierb Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 As someone who has similar experience in IT you must have missed all the sans and blade chassis I've seen bricked by bad firmware updates As you should know. It's impossible to account for ever single permutation. And IBM, HP, Microsoft and Apple have VASTLY more resources for doing this kind of thing and they still have issues like this with Firmware (we lost a couple of surfaces last week with Firmware updates). I don't think it's as boggling as you do to be honest As someone who's updated my Axe FX 30-50 times (there's firmware update about 2-3 times a month) without a single problem I think it's very poor experience to end up with not one but *two* Helices with firmware update problems, the first one being completely bricked. There is (at least was, maybe it's fixed now?) something wrong with their firmware update process, I'm also in IT and I have updated BIOSes for hundreds of various devices (including SANS and blade chassis) and the only time I ended up with a bricked device was because of of a power outage. Anyway, I hope v1.06 is the last time I have any issues with a firmware update :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPhil20795 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 mikeolivercgp - sounds like we had the same problem with fw updates. Line 6 also took back my original Helix and replaced with a new one with the latest fw (1.04.3). Quickly, I might add. Thank you Line 6! So here's a question for you tech guys. A couple years ago our house was struck by lightning. Apparently, the surge went through our cable (tv) and took out 2 TVs, a modem, and messed up my stereo receiver which was connected to the tv via HDMI cable. Because of that, I purchased a couple of Tripplite power strips with coax connectors to hopefully protect my stuff from any future lightning strikes. However, I found out that the coax connectors on the strip didn't play nice with our cable box, so now we are connected as usual. I do still have my cable connected to another Tripplite strip with coax connectors which then runs to my modem, etc. to the computer. I'm wondering if this perhaps has something to do with my fw update issues (PC running Windows 7). Also, someone else here learned from somebody that connecting to the USB ports on the front of their computer was akin to plugging into a USB hub, whereas plugging into the other USB connections on the back was not. I could not update my DT25 from my main computer. I ended up updating the amp using my old laptop running XP, wireless, no problem. Just wondering if these little things could be contributing factors. Or is it as xavierb suggests - that it's Line 6's process that's problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaminjimlp Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 L6, any ideas on when the El Capitan clicking and popping will be fixed? It's really bad and I can't do any reamping because of it. I upgraded to EC before purchasing the Helix because after tests all my other stuff worked perfectly. not yet ... it's a mac problem but DI said they may not wait on apple to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaminjimlp Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Guess I shouldn't be giving tips as it took me 3 hours or more to do the update, I was about to box it up and take it back but I gave it one more try and it worked. Line 6 installer wouldn't read my helix, so my thing was different than yours. Good luck mine was doing that as well I had 1.04 and the helix app did see it but the line 6 updater didn't... after trying unplugging and plugging I just switched the helix off wile still connected to usb and soon as it booted it saw it I updated and the new amps are sweet,,,, thanks Line 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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