archisc Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Has anyone study how Helix amp settings (gain, channel vol and master vol) relates to the actual real amp? e,g: real Vox amp settings XYZ sounds similar to Helix Vox with ABC settings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 That's an interesting question that I think is very simplistic on the surface but very complicated when you dig deeper. Simplistically, that's the whole idea of modelling. So the sound of the model is as close to the 'real' sound as the modelling technology allows. To put it another way, the sound at the same settings is as close as it can get; it won't sound closer at different settings. But I think what you're really asking is "How close is it?". And that's where things get complicated because the answer depends on who is judging/measuring, and how? If a studio technician is measuring using waveform analysis based on recorded samples of the two you may get an answer like "the waveforms are 99% identical". Does that mean the sound is 'the same'? I don't know. If a guitar player is standing in front of the real amp and comparing his/her perception of the real amp sound compared to the sound of the Helix output through some other amplification system, you may get a different answer which is based purely on one person's ability to subjectively differentiate between two sounds. And all that means is that the sound is 'the same', or not, based on that person in that place at that time with that equipment. You could get a different answer from a different (or even the same) person using different Helix amplification/monitoring in a different setting. And whether or not they sound exactly the same, perhaps the best question is "Do they sound close enough that nobody in the audience will notice, so I don't have to lug around all the heavy physical amps that I want to use at different times during a gig?". For me, the answer to that last question is a resounding Yes! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Line 6 has provided a way for you to answer this for yourself: http://line6.com/helix/sound.html It's based on the most fair comparison you can make - the recorded sound of the mic'd real amp vs. the recorded sound of Helix using the same amp model with the same cab/mic combination. What are your conclusions? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 When i comes to modelers, the only question I ask is, "will it give me the sound I'm after?". Or at least a sound or sounds I can use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmayfield Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 By analogy, you can imagine a synthesizer that perfectly re-creates the sound of a specific piano, let's say Steinway Model B, Serial Number 123456. If it's a perfect synthesizer, then that means you can take a recording of synthesizer, and compare it to a recording of that actual piano (mic'd the same way as the synth and played the exact same way), and nobody would be able to tell any difference, ever. What's missing here is that there's a difference between a recording (which is played on speakers) and a live piano in the room (which produces sound through strings and wood). If you compare apples to apples by listening to the two recordings, played through the same speakers, then there is effectively no difference. But any time you compare the sound of a speaker producing sound, vs. complex physical objects producing sound, you're comparing apples to oranges. They are fundamentally different. By analogy, a guitar amp modeler might be so good that, in a blind test, you cannot tell a recording of the modeler apart from a recording of that same amp mic'd the same way. I believe the Helix is this good, and you might conclude that yourself after hearing the sounds in the link Silverhead posted above. But, remember what the modeler is doing - its XLR outputs are basically equivalent to the mic cable coming out of a soundproof studio where the amp sits. It's not replacing an amp sitting next to you; it's replacing an amp in an invisible soundproof studio. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 But any time you compare the sound of a speaker producing sound, vs. complex physical objects producing sound, you're comparing apples to oranges. They are fundamentally different. By analogy, a guitar amp modeler might be so good that, in a blind test, you cannot tell a recording of the modeler apart from a recording of that same amp mic'd the same way. I believe the Helix is this good, and you might conclude that yourself after hearing the sounds in the link Silverhead posted above. But, remember what the modeler is doing - its XLR outputs are basically equivalent to the mic cable coming out of a soundproof studio where the amp sits. It's not replacing an amp sitting next to you; it's replacing an amp in an invisible soundproof studio. Excellent. By analogy, you can imagine a synthesizer that perfectly re-creates the sound of a specific piano, let's say Steinway Model B, Serial Number 123456. If it's a perfect synthesizer, then that means you can take a recording of synthesizer, and compare it to a recording of that actual piano (mic'd the same way as the synth and played the exact same way), and nobody would be able to tell any difference, ever. What's missing here is that there's a difference between a recording (which is played on speakers) and a live piano in the room (which produces sound through strings and wood). If you compare apples to apples by listening to the two recordings, played through the same speakers, then there is effectively no difference. And if the synthesizer is truly perfect, if you flipped the phase of one or the other 180 degrees, the two signals should effectively cancel each other out and you'd hear nothing... or next to nothing. ... But this kind of thing may not happen in our lifetime... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archisc Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 I am glad people are interested in this topic.... Part of the difficulties in navigating in the digital world is that there are so many things that can mess up / improve the sound... I wish people who has those amps can do a side by side comparison (Helix and real amp) and demo how Helix behave differently than real amps. I don't question Helix can get close to the real thing.. but what needs to be done to the amp is less apparent. I read somewhere that Helix master vol. 8 equals to Master vol. max. on a real amp. If people don't know that and maxing out the Master vol. on Helix, I can imagine people takes longer to get their sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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