Per snapshot amp channel switching with instant commands

[MemphoBuckeye]

Hi. I'm trying to set up my Helix to switch my amp channels with instant commands *per snapshot*. So that in a particular preset, I have snapshot 1 be my base sound, snapshot 2 be my lead sound, etc. I set the instant command (in my case, this is a MIDI CC per my amp MIDI implementation) via the command center for snapshot 1. Then I do the same for snapshot 2 (with a different MIDI CC). However, any changes I make to snapshot 2 for the instant command also get applied to snapshot 1. In other words, the instant commands do not appear to be assignable *per snapshot*. I've tried the push knob and turn (for the CC value) but it doesn't work - no brackets appear.

 

What am I missing? I am on the latest update, by the way.

[HonestOpinion]

I am not using my Helix for MIDI switching but my first thought would be to assign the MIDI CC from the 'Command Center' page rather than from 'Controller Assign' page. You might want to give that a try or wait for someone else with more experience with MIDI programming on the Helix to chime in.

[GlennDeLaune]

Hi. I'm trying to set up my Helix to switch my amp channels with instant commands *per snapshot*. So that in a particular preset, I have snapshot 1 be my base sound, snapshot 2 be my lead sound, etc. I set the instant command (in my case, this is a MIDI CC per my amp MIDI implementation) via the command center for snapshot 1. Then I do the same for snapshot 2 (with a different MIDI CC). However, any changes I make to snapshot 2 for the instant command also get applied to snapshot 1. In other words, the instant commands do not appear to be assignable *per snapshot*. I've tried the push knob and turn (for the CC value) but it doesn't work - no brackets appear.

 

What am I missing? I am on the latest update, by the way.

I think in Global settings under preferences, you can set snapshot edit behavior:

• Recall—Any snapshot edits are recalled when jumping from snapshot to snapshot,

and appear as you last left them (the default)

• Discard—Any snapshot edits are discarded when jumping from snapshot to

snapshot, and appear as the preset was last saved. If you want to save changes

made to a snapshot while Snapshot Edits is set to “Discard,†press SAVE

twice before selecting another snapshot

[HonestOpinion]

I think in Global settings under preferences, you can set snapshot edit behavior:

• Recall—Any snapshot edits are recalled when jumping from snapshot to snapshot,

and appear as you last left them (the default)

• Discard—Any snapshot edits are discarded when jumping from snapshot to

snapshot, and appear as the preset was last saved. If you want to save changes

made to a snapshot while Snapshot Edits is set to “Discard,†press SAVE

twice before selecting another snapshot

 

That was my first thought as well but I don't think it applies in this case. That 'Snapshot Edit' setting does not appear to have any effect on the CC# settings. He is right when he says that the MIDI CC does not allow the usual click and turn procedure that creates brackets around the CC# and allows it to be changed from snapshot to snapshot like other parameters. I think the trick may instead be to assign the CC# from the 'Command Center' page but I could well be incorrect. Using the Helix for MIDI assignment has not been a focus for me.

[MemphoBuckeye]

Thanks to you both, but I *am* using the command center to set the MIDI CC for the instant commands. I agree the global "snapshot edit" setting does not seem to apply here - though I did play with the different values to see if it somehow made a difference (it did not). The manual seems clear that this should work (bottom of page 36 in the most recent version) - I must be missing something basic.

[HonestOpinion]

Hi. I'm trying to set up my Helix to switch my amp channels with instant commands *per snapshot*. So that in a particular preset, I have snapshot 1 be my base sound, snapshot 2 be my lead sound, etc. I set the instant command (in my case, this is a MIDI CC per my amp MIDI implementation) via the command center for snapshot 1. Then I do the same for snapshot 2 (with a different MIDI CC). However, any changes I make to snapshot 2 for the instant command also get applied to snapshot 1. In other words, the instant commands do not appear to be assignable *per snapshot*. I've tried the push knob and turn (for the CC value) but it doesn't work - no brackets appear.

 

What am I missing? I am on the latest update, by the way.

 

 

Thanks to you both, but I *am* using the command center to set the MIDI CC for the instant commands. I agree the global "snapshot edit" setting does not seem to apply here - though I did play with the different values to see if it somehow made a difference (it did not). The manual seems clear that this should work (bottom of page 36 in the most recent version) - I must be missing something basic.

 

You say in your initial post that you used the 'Command Center' to assign your CC command to 'Snapshot 1'. Did you use the icon of the actual switch for the CC assignment or did you use the lightning bolt (instant) assignment. If you did properly use the footswitch icon for the footswitch that corresponds to the snapshot the only other thing I can think of is that perhaps you still have the CC assigned from the 'Controller Assign' page as well. Make sure you dial that back to none or you may be sending out the wrong CC# no matter what you assigned in the 'Command Center' page. Another problem people have run into is not realizing that the footswitch icons in the 'Command Center' start with the 'Bank' footswitch so you may want to double-check and make sure the footswitch you assigned your CC# to is indeed the one that corresponds to the snapshot footswitch you are pressing.

[MemphoBuckeye]

Thanks. I used the lightning bolt for an instant message, because I want this to happen without my having to stomp a switch.

 

From the user manual under the "Using Snapshots" section:

 

> Adjust the preset by doing one or more of the following:

> • Turn several blocks on or off by pressing stomp mode footswitches and/or the BYPASS button

> • Push-turn a few knobs to automatically assign their parameters to the Snapshots controller (their values appear white and in brackets)

> • On the Command Center page, adjust the values of any Instant messages or press a footswitch assigned to CC Toggle, CV Toggle, or Ext Amp

 

That last bullet seems to indicate this should work.

 

I don't have any controller assigns in the patch at all.

[HonestOpinion]

Thanks. I used the lightning bolt for an instant message, because I want this to happen without my having to stomp a switch.

 

From the user manual under the "Using Snapshots" section:

 

> Adjust the preset by doing one or more of the following:

> • Turn several blocks on or off by pressing stomp mode footswitches and/or the BYPASS button

> • Push-turn a few knobs to automatically assign their parameters to the Snapshots controller (their values appear white and in brackets)

> • On the Command Center page, adjust the values of any Instant messages or press a footswitch assigned to CC Toggle, CV Toggle, or Ext Amp

 

That last bullet seems to indicate this should work.

 

I don't have any controller assigns in the patch at all.

 

I think I know what is causing an issue for you.  It has to do with blurb from the manual in bold below. All 'instant' MIDI messages (up to 6) are sent whenever you first switch to a preset. They are also all called when you switch to a snapshot. I am not sure how you can use the instant MIDI messages and not have them send exactly the same messages again when you want to switch snapshots. Maybe you have to use the footswitch icon assignments in the 'Command Center' to send different CC#s rather than the 'instant' icons. I can't quite get my brain wrapped around this either. It seems like you might want to have for instance the clean channel CC# sent when you initially select the preset and then have the crunch channel CC# load when you select a 'Crunch' snapshot. Perhaps assigning the CC# with a footswitch icon allows this to happen by firing off the CC assignment for the footswitch of whatever snapshot is selected when the preset is first switched to. I also seem to be missing something here. Please report back when you get it figured out or perhaps someone will post the correct procedure. I am definitely curious now.

 

The thing that is particularly confusing to me is the table on page 36 of the manual seems to indicate the capability to send up to 6 different 'instant' commands upon a snapshot switch. I just don't see how this is setup? It would work if the values you programmed in the 'Command Center' in one snapshot were retained when you move to another snapshot and programmed different values in the 'Command Center' but they are not. I wonder if this is a bug or a feature that is in the manual but has not been implemented yet.

 

Page 45 of the manual:

NOTE: The Value parameters of any instant MIDI CC, Bank/Prog, MMC, and CV Out messages, plus the state (dim or lit) of any CC Toggle, CV Toggle, and Ext Amp messages are automatically recalled when selecting a snapshot.

 

[HonestOpinion]

This is interesting and all done from the 'Command Center'.  If you select a snapshot, program an 'instant' CC# and assign a number to 'Value' and then save. Now move to another snapshot, go to the 'Command Center' and select the same 'instant' icon and the same CC# and select a different 'Value' and save. Now when you move back and forth between the two snapshots they do send the different 'Value' numbers you assigned.

 

It appears as if different CC#s are not retained between different snapshots but different Values are. I just don't understand the behavior here at all. Might be as designed but if so I am missing the underlying principle.

 

I'm gonna leave this one for the big brains who have played with MIDI for a while to figure out. Good luck getting this resolved!

[MemphoBuckeye]

I see the same behavior you do - different values for the same CC are saved between the snapshots, but not different CC#s. Unfortunately, I want to switch between different CC#s that have the same value. Anyway - thanks for looking this with me. We'll see if someone else can help, and if not, I'll open a ticket.

[phil_m]

I see the same behavior you do - different values for the same CC are saved between the snapshots, but not different CC#s. Unfortunately, I want to switch between different CC#s that have the same value. Anyway - thanks for looking this with me. We'll see if someone else can help, and if not, I'll open a ticket.

 

This is the expected/designed behavior with Instant Commands. You can change the value of the CC, but not the actual CC. You do have up to six Instant Commands to work with, however. So if you want to send a certain CC for one snapshot, and another one for a different snapshot, you can do that. If the value for that CC doesn't change from snapshot to snapshot, that command won't be sent when you change snapshots

[MemphoBuckeye]

> You do have up to six Instant Commands to work with, however.

> So if you want to send a certain CC for one snapshot, and another one for a different snapshot, you can do that

 

Thanks, but I had previously tried this as well with no success. Or maybe, I am not clearly understanding you.

 

In my case (Marshall JVM410HJS amp), I need for example,:

  - snapshot 1: send CC#17, value 1

  - snapshot 2: send CC#18, value 1

 

OK - so here's what I do:

   1. Activate Snapshot 1

   2. Go to Command Center and place CC#17, value 1 in Instant Command 1.

   3. Save

   4. Activate Snapshot 2

   5. Go to Command Center and place CC#18, value 1 in Instant Command 2.

   6. Save

 

Now I go back to the Command Center and observe that what I have is:

   Snapshot 1:

      - Instant Command 1: CC#17, value 1

      - Instant Command 2: CC#18, value 0

    Snapshot 2:

      - Instant Command 1: CC#17, value 1

      - Instant Command 2: CC#18, value 1

 

This switches the amp between CC#18, value 0 and CC#18, value 1 - not what I want.

 

Help!?

[phil_m]

> You do have up to six Instant Commands to work with, however.

> So if you want to send a certain CC for one snapshot, and another one for a different snapshot, you can do that

 

Thanks, but I had previously tried this as well with no success. Or maybe, I am not clearly understanding you.

 

In my case (Marshall JVM410HJS amp), I need for example,:

  - snapshot 1: send CC#17, value 1

  - snapshot 2: send CC#18, value 1

 

OK - so here's what I do:

   1. Activate Snapshot 1

   2. Go to Command Center and place CC#17, value 1 in Instant Command 1.

   3. Save

   4. Activate Snapshot 2

   5. Go to Command Center and place CC#18, value 1 in Instant Command 2.

   6. Save

 

Now I go back to the Command Center and observe that what I have is:

   Snapshot 1:

      - Instant Command 1: CC#17, value 1

      - Instant Command 2: CC#18, value 0

    Snapshot 2:

      - Instant Command 1: CC#17, value 1

      - Instant Command 2: CC#18, value 1

 

This switches the amp between CC#18, value 0 and CC#18, value 1 - not what I want.

 

Help!?

 

Yeah, there may be no good workaround, at least for CCs, for what you want to do right now. I think the big thing is that the MIDI implement on the JVM410HJS is kind of weird, imo. They're using CCs to do something more like PC messages. Typically, CC messages are used more for setting values for parameters, not necessarily for switching between a handful of discrete channels. It would be nice if they gave a CC value in each mode that just didn't do anything, because than you could just set that value for that particular CC in the snapshot that you don't want anything to happen.

 

Looking through the amp manual, I notice that the head has 128 presets slots that can be recalled by PC messages. That might be an easier way to go. You can send out a different PC message for each Instant Command in each snapshot. So they would act more like you're wanting the CC messages to act. You'd just be recalling presets on the amp instead of changing channels.

 

The other workaround would be picking up something like the MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus. That allows to create filters or unique MIDI maps, so you could send out PC messages from the Helix with snapshot changes and map them to whatever CC value you want. This might be getting further in the MIDI weeds than you want to go, though.

[MemphoBuckeye]

I had wondered whether the CC channel switching on the amp might be kind of weird, and also lamented at the fact there was no "do nothing" value. So, I will abandon trying to use the CC message and instead program the amp with the presets that I can recall with a PC message. Looks like that will work just fine.

 

Thank you very much to everyone that helped me work through this ! :)

[mileskb]

While I can't help directly... I just posted a video from Richie Castellano in another thread where he seems to be doing exactly what you are trying to do.  He uses MIDI to switch parameters and channels with snapshots and it seemed to be working, but there were more/different steps that you have shown above.

 

You might go check it out just to be sure.  I believe he's using an Engl head.

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/23527-great-new-demonstration-controlling-amp-pedals-and-other-gear-from-helix/