Route mic in to headphones without DSP?

[njglover]

Right now, I am using the Helix for... everything. It processes all my guitar or bass sounds and I use the mic in to take a monitor out from our mixer for monitoring purposes (I run wired in-ears off the headphone output). The problem is that it seems that the only way to route things this way is to use up an entire path for just the mic input and a preamp model that go to a digital output only (so that they don't get fed back to the mixer). Is there a way to do this without using up a valuable path?

[AZGuitar]

Right now, I am using the Helix for... everything. It processes all my guitar or bass sounds and I use the mic in to take a monitor out from our mixer for monitoring purposes (I run wired in-ears off the headphone output). The problem is that it seems that the only way to route things this way is to use up an entire path for just the mic input and a preamp model that go to a digital output only (so that they don't get fed back to the mixer). Is there a way to do this without using up a valuable path?

 

I agree, kind of the same thing I am suggesting here.

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/14497-helix-ideascale-community-submissions/page-12?do=findComment&comment=184519

[HonestOpinion]

Right now, I am using the Helix for... everything. It processes all my guitar or bass sounds and I use the mic in to take a monitor out from our mixer for monitoring purposes (I run wired in-ears off the headphone output). The problem is that it seems that the only way to route things this way is to use up an entire path for just the mic input and a preamp model that go to a digital output only (so that they don't get fed back to the mixer). Is there a way to do this without using up a valuable path?

 

I may not understand exactly what you are trying to do and you may already have thought of this and rejected it. This approach would use one two send/return loops set up right before the output block. The first send return loop would strictly use the loop's send and would output your guitar signal, so the send jack from this loop would go to your FRFR, amp, or the mixing console and would only have the guitar sound. The second send/return loop block (right before the output block) would use the return as the input from your mixing board (assume this is your monitoring mix). The output block (or the send from the second loop block) would then be able to have a mix of your guitar signal and the monitor mix from your board. You would send the monitor mix from your board to the Helix (second loop return) without the guitar in it as you will be mixing the guitar in with the rest of the monitor mix on the Helix. Not sure if I have this right but it sounds like a possibility. 

[AZGuitar]

This is my work around for now,  I don't have enough dsp to add an additional loop to try the above....

 

[HonestOpinion]

This is my work around for now,  I don't have enough dsp to add an additional loop to try the above....

 

 

Can you move the looper to Route 1? That would probably free up enough DSP on Route 2. You have to delete it and then add it to the other route. The looper block does not allow a copy and then delete.

[HonestOpinion]

This is my work around for now,  I don't have enough dsp to add an additional loop to try the above....

 

 

Not sure exactly how you have things routed looking at your preset. It appears to have three separate outputs blocks. Although it is labeled 'Super Serial x2' the first route (Route 1) does not appear to be routing to Route 2. The 'X' on the input block without the arrow pointing down from the output block on Route 1 would indicate that there is nothing designated for the input block on Route 2. Perhaps you were just using this photo to demonstrate the lack of DSP because I am not sure where you were inputting your monitor feed in from. Were the blocks on Route 2 being used to process the signal coming from your mixing board (monitor feed) for the IEMs? The path I envisioned with the 2 return loops at the end would have been a true Super Serial x2 setup (Route 1 passing output to Route 2) with processing for the guitar which goes out the first loop but no processing after the second loop which is where the monitor feed from the board comes in. Effect blocks after the loop would also impact your guitar signal (in addition to the monitor mix from the board), probably not optimal or desired in my suggested setup.  I assumed your monitor signal from the board would already have been processed and you were simply looking for a way to mix your guitar signal and the signal from the board via the Helix.

[HonestOpinion]

Right now, I am using the Helix for... everything. It processes all my guitar or bass sounds and I use the mic in to take a monitor out from our mixer for monitoring purposes (I run wired in-ears off the headphone output). The problem is that it seems that the only way to route things this way is to use up an entire path for just the mic input and a preamp model that go to a digital output only (so that they don't get fed back to the mixer). Is there a way to do this without using up a valuable path?

 

Btw, here is a simple solution (not sure if it applies for you) that uses all of the DSP available on the Helix by using a Super Serial x2 setup but allows you to split it as you wish between two different inputs and outputs. In other words you can use 90% of the Helix's DSP for the guitar and 10% for the monitor input intended for the IEMs.  Not quite sure how you would mix the guitar and mixing board output with this example but it may give you some ideas.  http://line6.com/customtone/tone/1460280/

[AZGuitar]

Btw, here is a simple solution (not sure if it applies for you) that uses all of the DSP available on the Helix by using a Super Serial x2 setup but allows you to split it as you wish between two different inputs and outputs. In other words you can use 90% of the Helix's DSP for the guitar and 10% for the monitor input intended for the IEMs.  Not quite sure how you would mix the guitar and mixing board output with this example but it may give you some ideas.  http://line6.com/customtone/tone/1460280/

Thanks for this link, on iPad now so will download it tomorrow and give it a try. The output is the key to not send the aviom band mix back to FOH along with my guitar signal from helix xlr. Note I'm using summed mono left xlr for FOH. I turn my stage mix channel off and monitor through helix headphone jack so my guitar is stereo in my mix. My route 2 is only active with the loop and set to 1/4 out so stage mix is only in my ears. The other effects on that path are just parked there while I find a solution. I appreciate your posting a possible alternative routing option.

[AZGuitar]

Can you move the looper to Route 1? That would probably free up enough DSP on Route 2. You have to delete it and then add it to the other route. The looper block does not allow a copy and then delete.

No because that would send stage mix back to FOH through my helix xlr feed.

[AZGuitar]

Btw, here is a simple solution (not sure if it applies for you) that uses all of the DSP available on the Helix by using a Super Serial x2 setup but allows you to split it as you wish between two different inputs and outputs. In other words you can use 90% of the Helix's DSP for the guitar and 10% for the monitor input intended for the IEMs.  Not quite sure how you would mix the guitar and mixing board output with this example but it may give you some ideas.  http://line6.com/customtone/tone/1460280/

 

Sir, you nailed it, thank you for the SS+1 solution. The Aux in did not work as it was outputting my guitar input and aux at the same time. When I placed the effects block as shown below my quick at home test worked perfectly. Better chance to test tonight with different amps but the result is full dsp power with all blocks available... Gotta love Helix right!

 

Week off from shows, what part of the country are you located/touring?

 

[HonestOpinion]

Sir, you nailed it, thank you for the SS+1 solution. The Aux in did not work as it was outputting my guitar input and aux at the same time. When I placed the effects block as shown below my quick at home test worked perfectly. Better chance to test tonight with different amps but the result is full dsp power with all blocks available... Gotta love Helix right!

 

Week off from shows, what part of the country are you located/touring?

 

 

Awesome! Glad it helped. Thanks for the graphic. What application are you using to put the balloons with text into the picture?

[phil_m]

Sir, you nailed it, thank you for the SS+1 solution. The Aux in did not work as it was outputting my guitar input and aux at the same time. When I placed the effects block as shown below my quick at home test worked perfectly. Better chance to test tonight with different amps but the result is full dsp power with all blocks available... Gotta love Helix right!

 

Week off from shows, what part of the country are you located/touring?

 

 

Glad you got it sorted...

 

This may be a stupid question, but I thought the whole point of the Aviom systems, at least the ones I've used, was that everyone could have their own individual mix. I guess I don't get why you can't just turn up yourself through the Aviom? Or is it just you don't have that granular level of control?

[njglover]

I may not understand exactly what you are trying to do and you may already have thought of this and rejected it. This approach would use one two send/return loops set up right before the output block. The first send return loop would strictly use the loop's send and would output your guitar signal, so the send jack from this loop would go to your FRFR, amp, or the mixing console and would only have the guitar sound. The second send/return loop block (right before the output block) would use the return as the input from your mixing board (assume this is your monitoring mix). The output block (or the send from the second loop block) would then be able to have a mix of your guitar signal and the monitor mix from your board. You would send the monitor mix from your board to the Helix (second loop return) without the guitar in it as you will be mixing the guitar in with the rest of the monitor mix on the Helix. Not sure if I have this right but it sounds like a possibility. 

 

If I understand you correctly, this means that I am now using a return jack as my monitor input and a send jack as my line output, correct? If so, then there are a couple of problems I have with this. The first is that in one of the bands, we don't have our own mixer or run our own sound, which means that I actually generally use a microphone connected to the mic in to monitor the stage - this means that the sound guy can basically run sound as normal, but I get better control over the volume. It's not the ideal situation, but it requires no changes for the sound guy and a lot of them are... not that intelligent around here, so that works in our favor. For the other band, we generally do run our own sound, so I can just run a line in, but the send and return jacks are not balanced, IIRC, which is also not ideal. I would much prefer to run XLRs for my ins and outs to the board.

[AZGuitar]

Awesome! Glad it helped. Thanks for the graphic. What application are you using to put the balloons with text into the picture?

 

I use Snag-It by tech smith. Free fully op 30 day trial from their website. Love to catch one of your shows if your in AZ.

[AZGuitar]

Glad you got it sorted...

 

This may be a stupid question, but I thought the whole point of the Aviom systems, at least the ones I've used, was that everyone could have their own individual mix. I guess I don't get why you can't just turn up yourself through the Aviom? Or is it just you don't have that granular level of control?

 

 

The Aviom is a return from FOH for stage mix. If you use Helix as your personal monitor mix your guitar is stereo in ear. Sounds awesome and just tighter better feel all around for me. You do need to remember to turn off your channel feed from the Aviom.

 

The best solution would still be to have the option to route effects returns to whatever output suits your needs IMO.