IR Bug?

[willjrock]

I'll report it and i can reproduce it, but has anyone come across a bug when dragging IR blocks,  it resets one of the IRs to the first IR in the bank? (only by audio, NOT visually) IR #1

 

I dont know the specifics because i just nailed this one down. It may only happen when using two 1024 IRs.

 

I knew something was going on because of the tone change, but sometimes its hard to tell. Esp when you have two cabs and fx running.

 

This bug has to have been acknowledged im sure. What do you know?

[willjrock]

Wanted to update here to clarify my topic.

 

 

Ok so, the first thing is to route all the audio to the B path  as follows

 

 

Everything is still sounding as intended, and you can see in the next pic that the lower IR block shows IR #99, and that IS in fact, the IR that is audible at this point.

 

 

 

Now,  by dragging the top IR block as shown in the next pic

 

 

The lower IR block still shows IR #99, but IR block #1 has now become audible. Audibly, the lower IR block has changed to the cab i have in my #1 slot, but visually, the lower IR block has not changed at all, while all along, no change was intended obviously. 

 

Here is the preset if you would like to try yourself.   https://www.dropbox.com/s/r8sjybv799rtenr/Hi%20Gain.hlx?dl=0

 

You will have to go through the motions i described above.....and then after attempting with my preset, maybe attempting to build the same preset from scratch on your own system might be useful?  The type of IRs (brand) have not had an impact so far.

 

Thanks. Appreciate any interest here.

[willjrock]

PS. the images in my 2nd post are not loading at the moment, so if this is the same for you and does not persist please let me know.

[zooey]

Images are all broken links for me.

 

Weird behavior you're describing, not sure I've got straight what's happening.

[willjrock]

Images are all broken links for me.

 

Weird behavior you're describing, not sure I've got straight what's happening.

Thanks man. Fixed.  Not sure why i suddenly need to add raw=1 at the end of my dropbox links, but i sure do.

[HonestOpinion]

Wanted to update here to clarify my topic.

 

 

Ok so, the first thing is to route all the audio to the B path  as follows

 

 

Everything is still sounding as intended, and you can see in the next pic that the lower IR block shows IR #99, and that IS in fact, the IR that is audible at this point.

 

 

 

Now,  by dragging the top IR block as shown in the next pic

 

 

The lower IR block still shows IR #99, but IR block #1 has now become audible. Audibly, the lower IR block has changed to the cab i have in my #1 slot, but visually, the lower IR block has not changed at all, while all along, no change was intended obviously. 

 

Here is the preset if you would like to try yourself.   https://www.dropbox.com/s/r8sjybv799rtenr/Hi%20Gain.hlx?dl=0

 

You will have to go through the motions i described above.....and then after attempting with my preset, maybe attempting to build the same preset from scratch on your own system might be useful?  The type of IRs (brand) have not had an impact so far.

 

Thanks. Appreciate any interest here.

 

I am curious, what is the split showing after you drag the IR block and the preset starts including the sound of the IR on Path A that should be routed around?  Is the split still set to "B 100%"?

[HonestOpinion]

Wanted to update here to clarify my topic.

 

 

Ok so, the first thing is to route all the audio to the B path  as follows

 

 

Everything is still sounding as intended, and you can see in the next pic that the lower IR block shows IR #99, and that IS in fact, the IR that is audible at this point.

 

 

 

Now,  by dragging the top IR block as shown in the next pic

 

.

...

Here is the preset if you would like to try yourself.   https://www.dropbox.com/s/r8sjybv799rtenr/Hi%20Gain.hlx?dl=0

...

 

I think your link may be incorrect. I am getting a preset called "Hi Gain" when I go to your link but it does not have the blocks you are showing above.

[zooey]

I'm also curious about the answer to HO's question on the state of the split block.

 

Another thing to investigate is whether you're right about which IR block(s) you're hearing, and which IRs they each have loaded. I'd suggest bypassing them both, then enabling them one at a time. Maybe also try incrementing or decrementing the assigned IRs, see if the "next" one you get lines up with what it says is loaded, and/or what you hear.

 

Weird though.

[willjrock]

I am curious, what is the split showing after you drag the IR block and the preset starts including the sound of the IR on Path A that should be routed around? Is the split still set to "B 100%"?

Good question HO. Thanks for your response. The split DOES remain at 100%B path.

[willjrock]

I think your link may be incorrect. I am getting a preset called "hi-gain" when I go to your link and it does not have the blocks you are showing above.

that really is strange. I'll have to check it. I only have one preset with that name in there. Maybe the file ext I was forced to add had something to do with it somehow. I'll have to look.

[HonestOpinion]

that really is strange. I'll have to check it. I only have one preset with that name in there. Maybe the file ext I was forced to add had something to do with it somehow. I'll have to look.

 

Weird, I downloaded it again and got a different file, the correct one (same as preset in your pics). Testing it out now.

[HonestOpinion]

I was able to reproduce your results using your downloaded preset whether I had the split at 'Even' or at 'B 100'. As soon as I move the IR on Path A (still between the split and merge) the sound changes audibly and dramatically. I used my own IRs so the issue seems to occur regardless of which IRs are loaded.  I am accustomed to the sound changing momentarily while I am moving the block but it is did not only change during the move operation. The sound of the IR is clearly different after the move. You can actually hear this most dramatically when you set the split to 'Even'. Most strange and a bit disconcerting. I even restarted my Helix to make sure this preset got rebuilt. 

 

When I build your preset from scratch I do not get this behavior however, everything operates normally. I am wondering if you downloaded this preset from Customtone or whether you restored it from a previous version of the firmware? Perhaps something in the patch did not upgrade properly.  Btw, I am currently on the 2.21 firmware and the 2.21 Editor. Probably has nothing to do with it but I would check your firmware and Editor and make sure they are matched up. Sometimes the Editor version does not get replaced properly if you don't uninstall it first. Good catch on this! Mystifying and I hope it does not impact other restored presets. Presets designed from scratch in this firmware don't seem to exhibit this behavior; at least not on my Helix.

[HonestOpinion]

Wanted to update here to clarify my topic. Especially now that the images are showing.

 

 

Ok so, the first thing is to route all the audio to the B path as follows

 

 

Everything is still sounding as intended, and you can see in the next pic that the lower IR block shows IR #99, and that IS in fact, the IR that is audible at this point.

 

 

Now, by dragging the top IR block as shown in the next pic

 

 

The lower IR block still shows IR #99, but IR block #1 has now become audible. Audibly, the lower IR block has changed to the cab i have in my #1 slot, but visually, the lower IR block has not changed at all, while all along, no change was intended obviously.

 

Here is the preset if you would like to try yourself. https://www.dropbox.com/s/r8sjybv799rtenr/Hi%20Gain.hlx?dl=0

 

You will have to go through the motions i described above.....and then after attempting with my preset, maybe attempting to build the same preset from scratch on your own system might be useful? The type of IRs (brand) have not had an impact so far.

 

Thanks. Appreciate any interest here.

 

Did you see my last post above this one? Definitely seeing the same results you are with your downloaded preset but not on presets built from scratch. Are you still getting this behavior when you build the preset from scratch?

[willjrock]

I was able to reproduce your results using your downloaded preset whether I had the split at 'Even' or at 'B 100'. As soon as I move the IR on Path A (still between the split and merge) the sound changes audibly and dramatically. I used my own IRs so the issue seems to occur regardless of which IRs are loaded.  I am accustomed to the sound changing momentarily while I am moving the block but it is did not only change during the move operation. The sound of the IR is clearly different after the move. You can actually hear this most dramatically when you set the split to 'Even'. Most strange and a bit disconcerting. I even restarted my Helix to make sure this preset got rebuilt. 

 

When I build your preset from scratch I do not get this behavior however, everything operates normally. I am wondering if you downloaded this preset from Customtone or whether you restored it from a previous version of the firmware? Perhaps something in the patch did not upgrade properly.  Btw, I am currently on the 2.21 firmware and the 2.21 Editor. Probably has nothing to do with it but I would check your firmware and Editor and make sure they are matched up. Sometimes the Editor version does not get replaced properly if you don't uninstall it first. Good catch on this! Mystifying and I hope it does not impact other restored presets. Presets designed from scratch in this firmware don't seem to exhibit this behavior; at least not on my Helix.

Thanks as always man, I did not download this preset from custom tone, and it most likely IS restored from an earlier firmware version. I will try building it from scratch. Firmware and editor are matched up on 2.20 (great point though - i missed this once a while back) I have never uninstalled firmware before installing new, so you very well may have something there as well.

 

I'm also curious about the answer to HO's question on the state of the split block.

 

Another thing to investigate is whether you're right about which IR block(s) you're hearing, and which IRs they each have loaded. I'd suggest bypassing them both, then enabling them one at a time. Maybe also try incrementing or decrementing the assigned IRs, see if the "next" one you get lines up with what it says is loaded, and/or what you hear.

 

Weird though.

State of the split shows 100% right, i am positive about the IR block i am hearing and which is loaded, and yes when i  toggle up to the next preset, it does in fact "line up" with the next in line, and then when i come back to the stored preset it is also returns to its "correct state", so the fix is easy. This i knew after i discovered the bug, but before i realized what was happening, i often had stored sounds to return to it later thinking "is that right"?

 

Sounds like you can access the file if you have any further interest.

 

Did you see my last post above this one? Definitely seeing the same results you are with your downloaded preset but not on presets built from scratch. Are you still getting this behavior when you build the preset from scratch?

I apologize. The last post was accidental and has thus been deleted. Ive been posting from my iphone and its been challenging to say the least. I was actually intending on posting in the "bug report" thread since the images had been updated.

[HonestOpinion]

Don't want to sound dramatic but definitely a little concerned about what you are seeing with your preset. Yesterday I was editing a couple of my presets from a former firmware version and all I did was drag a volume block to a new position on the other side of a split/merge and save the preset. Similar in some ways to what you were doing with the IR. The Helix locked up on me still making sound but no switching possible. I could not switch snapshots or any effects. I rebooted and it locked up on me again on the same preset. I tried the same move of the block on another preset that had been based on the one that locked and the Helix locked up again. No amount of restarts helped, the Helix would lock up every time I hit a footswitch in those presets. I had to restore the presets from backups and then they worked properly again. This has never happened to me before and I have been through almost every firmware upgrade since the Helix was released.

 

Two lessons refreshed here. I was really glad I had backups and if you are having lockup issues one the first things to eliminate as a possible cause is the specific preset(s) it is occurring on. My confidence in this firmware update or the latest Editor is a bit shaken. I mention the Editor because I did the block move with the Editor and it appeared to have corrupted the presets. I think there may be some kind of issue with the new Editor that is impacting stability. I will have to test whether doing the move directly on the Helix corrupts the presets. I have been using those presets through every firmware version without an issue until now. I will be keeping an eye on the forum for Helix lockup posts (have seen a few related to this firmware release) to see if this is a more frequent issue since the release of the 2.21 or 2.20 firmware/Editor. 

 

My case may be anecdotal and perhaps other users will not experience this but I would highly recommend to anyone on the latest firmware that you back up your setlists and presets just in case. That is of course something you should do as a best practice all the time anyway.

[zooey]

Open a ticket for sure, unless there already is one. Line 6 should know about this.

[rzumwalt]

Don't want to sound dramatic but definitely a little concerned about what you are seeing with your preset. Yesterday I was editing a couple of my presets from a former firmware version and all I did was drag a volume block to a new position on the other side of a split/merge and save the preset. Similar in some ways to what you were doing with the IR. The Helix locked up on me still making sound but no switching possible. I could not switch snapshots or any effects. I rebooted and it locked up on me again on the same preset. I tried the same move of the block on another preset that had been based on the one that locked and the Helix locked up again. No amount of restarts helped, the Helix would lock up every time I hit a footswitch in those presets. I had to restore the presets from backups and then they worked properly again. This has never happened to me before and I have been through almost every firmware upgrade since the Helix was released.

 

Two lessons refreshed here. I was really glad I had backups and if you are having lockup issues one the first things to eliminate as a possible cause is the specific preset(s) it is occurring on. My confidence in this firmware update or the latest Editor is a bit shaken. I mention the Editor because I did the block move with the Editor and it appeared to have corrupted the presets. I think there may be some kind of issue with the new Editor that is impacting stability. I will have to test whether doing the move directly on the Helix corrupts the presets. I have been using those presets through every firmware version without an issue until now. I will be keeping an eye on the forum for Helix lockup posts (have seen a few related to this firmware release) to see if this is a more frequent issue since the release of the 2.21 or 2.20 firmware/Editor. 

 

My case may be anecdotal and perhaps other users will not experience this but I would highly recommend to anyone on the latest firmware that you back up your setlists and presets just in case. That is of course something you should do as a best practice all the time anyway.

 

I've actually had virtually the same problem recently. Though, I'm still trying to narrow down what is happening by trying to trigger the problem under different circumstances, it sounds like we have the same problem. What I noticed is that it only kicks in when I try to change snapshots in a "corrupted" preset. And it is the same with copies of the corrupted preset and copies made of the preset from before the firmware upgrade. I haven't figured out yet whether the effect I am seeing is triggered by moving an effect block in Editor, but I will check that out next. 

I will lend these observations to the community and anyone who is trying to resolve this type of issue:

1. It only effects presets existing before the Firmware 2.21 update (the most recent one, in case my memory is off on the number), and copies of those presets.
2. It doesn't affect all pre-existing presents, only a small percentage of them.
3. Once the preset is corrupted, the time you press a snapshot button usually causes that snapshot to load but neither the floor pedal lights nor the led screen to change. The next time you try to press any button, nothing changes or loads.
4. Once the preset is hung up, you also cannot change the preset. The only solution I have found is to turn the Helix off and on again, and this seems to always work, as long as you change the preset to a non-corrupt one before changing any snapshots. I have not yet attempted any type of soft reboot, assuming there is a way to do that.
5. Other than that one issue, nothing else seems to be a problem. Other presets work fine, and the corrupted preset sounds the same, even after it hangs up. There is no instability in any of the other presets and I am comfortable playing live with it every week.
6. I've only noticed it with presets I've built during the last few Firmware updates; and it may only be presets built under the 2.20 update, I'm not entirely certain yet.

It's not super annoying, but I would be happy to see it fixed in an upcoming update, if possible. 

[jbuhajla]

Open a ticket for sure, unless there already is one. Line 6 should know about this.

Yes, anything they can do to recreate an issue will help them with future upgrades concerning backward compatibility of older presets. 

[willjrock]

Ticket Opened. Thanks guys!

[HonestOpinion]

I've actually had virtually the same problem recently. Though, I'm still trying to narrow down what is happening by trying to trigger the problem under different circumstances, it sounds like we have the same problem. What I noticed is that it only kicks in when I try to change snapshots in a "corrupted" preset. And it is the same with copies of the corrupted preset and copies made of the preset from before the firmware upgrade. I haven't figured out yet whether the effect I am seeing is triggered by moving an effect block in Editor, but I will check that out next. 

I will lend these observations to the community and anyone who is trying to resolve this type of issue:

1. It only effects presets existing before the Firmware 2.21 update (the most recent one, in case my memory is off on the number), and copies of those presets.
2. It doesn't affect all pre-existing presents, only a small percentage of them.
3. Once the preset is corrupted, the time you press a snapshot button usually causes that snapshot to load but neither the floor pedal lights nor the led screen to change. The next time you try to press any button, nothing changes or loads.
4. Once the preset is hung up, you also cannot change the preset. The only solution I have found is to turn the Helix off and on again, and this seems to always work, as long as you change the preset to a non-corrupt one before changing any snapshots. I have not yet attempted any type of soft reboot, assuming there is a way to do that.
5. Other than that one issue, nothing else seems to be a problem. Other presets work fine, and the corrupted preset sounds the same, even after it hangs up. There is no instability in any of the other presets and I am comfortable playing live with it every week.
6. I've only noticed it with presets I've built during the last few Firmware updates; and it may only be presets built under the 2.20 update, I'm not entirely certain yet.

It's not super annoying, but I would be happy to see it fixed in an upcoming update, if possible. 

 

This is exactly, and I do mean precisely the same behavior I am seeing. I don't know which blocks, routing, or whatever from previous firmware presets is causing it but some combination causes simple basic operations like moving a block in the new 2.21 Editor (and maybe the new firmware, have not tested this directly on the Helix yet) to corrupt presets which can then subsequently cause lockups. Or, in willjrock's example it does not cause a lockup but causes strange behavior and tone changes where there should not be any. I want to stress that I am meticulous about my backup/restores, firmware/Editor version matching, firmware updates, and global resets and have been since my first update. This is definitely not due to user error. There is a bug here!

[willjrock]

Ok so this just happened on a brand new 2.20 preset. Completely different amps and IRs.