Pod HD500X and 4CM

[merglet]

Okay, I know this has been asked millions of times already, but I need a straight answer.  I understand that if I want to use my amp's preamp, I just insert an FX loop into the chain and easy peasy.  What I don't understand is how to completely bypass my amp's preamp using the 4cm.  

 

If answering, please don't say "use this other method of cabling instead", because I see that a lot, and it doesn't help.  I'm not switching cables in and out during a live show.  What do I need to do in a patch to use the preamps on the pod and bypass the one on the amp? And even switch back and forth just by changing patches?

 

Thanks a million, look forward to replies.  

[rd2rk]

Set up a switch that turns the effects loop OFF and turns an HD amp ON. Easy peasey.

[merglet]

Set up a switch that turns the effects loop OFF and turns an HD amp ON. Easy peasey.

So.. .when the effects loop is off, it bypasses the preamp on the amp?  Thanks for your reply :)

[rd2rk]

Guitar->POD Guitar Input

(FX if desired)->Send/Return Block

POD Send->Amp Input

Amp FX Loop Out->POD Return

POD Amp->(FX if desired)

POD 1/4" Out to Amp FX Return

 

When the Send/Return Block is ON (POD Amp OFF) the signal (maybe after a distortion placed BEFORE the Send/Return Block) goes OUT to the Amp Input. You're using the Amp's Preamp, back to the POD. After the POD Amp (which is OFF) maybe you've got a delay. The signal then goes out the 1/4" to the Amp's FX Return.

 

When the Send/Return Block is OFF the signal goes straight from the POD Guitar Input to (thru FX if desired) the POD Amp (which is now ON), thru the (FX if desired) and out the 1/4" to the Amp's FX Return, thus bypassing the Amp's Preamp section. 

[rd2rk]

OOPS! Meant POD, not Helix. Works the same, I've corrected it. Sorry!

[merglet]

Guitar->POD Guitar Input

(FX if desired)->Send/Return Block

POD Send->Amp Input

Amp FX Loop Out->POD Return

POD Amp->(FX if desired)

POD 1/4" Out to Amp FX Return

 

When the Send/Return Block is ON (POD Amp OFF) the signal (maybe after a distortion placed BEFORE the Send/Return Block) goes OUT to the Amp Input. You're using the Amp's Preamp, back to the POD. After the POD Amp (which is OFF) maybe you've got a delay. The signal then goes out the 1/4" to the Amp's FX Return.

 

When the Send/Return Block is OFF the signal goes straight from the POD Guitar Input to (thru FX if desired) the POD Amp (which is now ON), thru the (FX if desired) and out the 1/4" to the Amp's FX Return, thus bypassing the Amp's Preamp section. 

Thank you!  That's the best explanation I've seen so far.  So just to double check, having the send/return off, is the same as not having the send/return in the patch at all?  For example, if I was using one of the presets that come with the pod, it would just send directly to the amp's fx return and to the power section of the amp, no muss, no fuss.

 

If that's correct, I owe you a beer!  I've been looking for two weeks for a thorough explanation and that's about the best I've seen so far.  Thanks a million!

[rd2rk]

Sounds like you've got it! Have fun!

[xjrider72a]

Rd2rk thank you so much.

I’ve been struggling with this as well. I’ve just bought my first ever amp and made sure it had an effects loop so I could use the 4 cable method. But couldn’t find a way to utilise the Pod Hd500x’s preamps. 

I was getting killer tone out of the preamp on my new Boss Nextone, but the whole reason for having a pod in the first place was the versatility of the additional amp models.

You’re a legend.

[Brazzy]

Here's something might help some.

 

Quote

the following is a copy & paste of an old post about the 4CM topic made by a guy called Tyler on a different forum:

 

I've cracked the HD500 4CM!!!

 

 Postby johnsontylerj » Wed May 02, 2012 8:23 pm
 OK fellas - I've figured it out...It's way later than a month after the last post. (sorry about that)

 Here's the Skinny, I've done tests now with signal generators to get consistent levels, and been very scientific about all this.

 

There are two main reasons for tone suck using the 4CM and an HD500 - and one of the reasons is a legitimate bug in the product - one is actually intentional.

First step in config - Input assignments = Input 1-Guitar, Input 2-Variax. This lowers the noise-floor of the pedal.

 

First - there is a 2.8dB difference between the Input Jack and the FX Send Jack (this is the bug). This has a huge impact on the tone. When you're using the HD500 as a pedal board before the Blackstar Preamp - the FX send switch needs to be set to "Stomp" - If it's set to "Line", you're unnaturally clipping the preamp in an unpleasant way because it's sending a signal that's 10dB LOUDER than the input signal...We all knew that.

 

The solution is to place the FX loop AFTER the mixer in your FX chain - so It goes: [Effects blocks]=>[Amp Model (Bypassed)]=>[Mixer]=>[FX LOOP]=>[Remaining Effects Blocks] Make Sense?

 

Then - you turn up BOTH A and B channels of the Mixer to "+3.0dB" and pan them both to "Center".
Now if you were to test the signal like I did, you would notice NEGLIGIBLE differences in the tone. The Gut Shimmer is back, right?

 

But wait - if your using a patch that has a fuzz face in it, or an analogue chorus (or a number of other FX)- and it's the first thing in the signal chain your thinking - "Why the hell is my tone still wrong - it sounds like someone turned the tone knob on my guitar down!!"

 

Well, this is the intentional part of the HD modelling...It's called Input Z. Line 6 is modelling the individual and authentic impedances of the pedals and Amps being modeled. Hence an analogue chorus with a 22K pot being first thing in the chain will KILL your tone. The fix is simple - either move the effect, or set the Input Z globally to 3.5M, or 1M - there's almost no difference between the two as far as the end result is concerned.

 

When you use these simple tweaks to setup 4CM you'll be VERY happy with the results. PM me if you have any other questions.

Cheers