Am I seriously out of DSP or doing something wrong?

[user-2233910]

I got a helix the other day trying to downsize and replace my AXEFX2 setup. So all I’m doing is trying to run 2 different amps in stereo with effects in from and some after. I have 2 amps and cabs split off from each other and the mixer hard panned left/right. That works fine then I add a overdrive in front and by that time anything else I pick in front of the amps in the single line half or all the effects are blacked out. That can’t possibly be all the dsp??? I’ve seen patches online with several lines completely full of stuff so I must be doing something wrong because my Fractal is so far 1000 times easier to use and route so I must be setting up the patch completely wrong. Any help explaining whatever boneheaded thing I’m doing to disable effects and seem to be barely using any DSP would be awesome. 

[phil_m]

The main thing to understand is that Path 1 has a dedicated processor and Path 2 has another. Each of those paths can be broken down into 1A & 1B and 2A & 2B. It sounds like you're probably only using 1A and 1B. The key is to spread out over both processor paths.

 

Here's an example of one of my dual amp patches:

[zooey]

Phil's point about the two paths is the main thing, but just for perspective, the other day I set up some patches with 4 amps. Still had room for some boosts, EQ, and if I remember right a compressor, before the amps, and eq, chorus, delay and verb after.

 

You can't just pick amps and effects at random and have 4 amps fit, but lots of amp combinations work. Making at least one amp in each path a model that's pretty light on cpu helps. Ben Vesco's DSP Allocation tables can help you figure out what's most likely to fit.

 

Just to be clear, you don't need to do all that to have big fun with Helix. This was the first time I tried more than two amps, and most of my patches just have one. I was just curious how it'd work out.

[schlagdog]

Hey guys. Thanks for the info. I serious have no idea how my account logged in as CIGFIX my actual Line6 account is schlagdog. Which I logged into and somehow is CIGFIX so I don’t know if it’s hacked or what. I tried the dual amp and it worked fine so far.  Why do i have to use the useless volume blocks in the split?  The routing on the helix seems to be tons and tons of wasted dsp and time. I only had about 15 mins to mess with it but I still don’t know why the dsp is so limited the way I set it up originally. It worked perfect other than the dsp died and couldn’t use most effects. I can do all this with my axefx without any issue at all and I thought the helix had a better processor but I guess it doesn’t. I’ll mess with it more tomorrow when I’m home. 

[cruisinon2]

3 hours ago, schlagdog said:

Why do i have to use the useless volume blocks in the split?  The routing on the helix seems to be tons and tons of wasted dsp and time. I only had about 15 mins to mess with it...

 

You don't "have" to do anything....I have a number of dual amp patches, and most of them have no volume blocks anywhere. Without seeing exactly what's in your signal chain,  it's difficult to say what the problem is. Some amp models chew up more DSP than others, and if you're using stereo blocks for everything, that'll use up more, too. 

 

I had plenty of experience with modelers before I got my Helix too, but 15 minutes of knobulating is woefully insufficient to really learn how to use just about any device currently on the market, imho. It's gonna take you a while to get comfortable with it. From the minimal experience I've had fooling aground with a friend's Axe Fx, the Fractal stuff is a different animal, and that's what you're used to...of course you find it easier to use. Give it all little time...

[schlagdog]

I’m still messing with it. I just was trying to run 2 amps and cabs in stereo and putting a delay in a path the give it separation and running about 5 effects in front. Somehow I had it setup where it worked but after the 2 amps and cabs it had room for 2 effects then the DSP died. Like i said, I was sure I was doing something wrong in the routing. I retired for about 3 hours earlier and gave up because I was routing it like the fractal and apparently that’s not how things work in helix. 

[dragonfet]

A single volume block is usually placed somewhere in the patch to make the expression pedal work as a volume pedal. Helix takes a rather generic approach there: A "volume pedal" is just one possible use for the expression pedal, so you can use it and place it anywhere you like, but you don't have to. I didn't look at the factory patches, but maybe some have multiple volume blocks to simulate multiple volume pedals that are all controlled by the expression pedal. It would be a possible application at least.

I haven't worked with the AxeFX yet, but yes, the Helix routing has a few quirks. It might help to always remember that there are two DSPs, as phil described: You can run a number of blocks on the upper two paths and a number of blocks on the lower two. If you want to use both, you have to figure out a routing (parallel, serial, ...) to do so, so it's a little more effort than with the AxeFX. In my experience, the learning curve becomes flat quickly though, so once you tried a few setups you'll know which options you have for a particular idea.

[schlagdog]

Thanks for the help guys. I’m going to return the Helix and stick with the AXEFX. I was hoping I would replace the Fractal but the amp sounds in the unit just aren’t up the the caliber of the Fractal. I love the looks and the effects of the helix but the tonal spectrum of the amps just isn’t there for me. If I didn’t own the Fractal and couldn’t sit around and A/B them and then an amp like my real 5150 or Marshall I would probably love the Helix and stick with it. The Fractal is just nearly spot on at this point and maybe the Helix will be at some point because everything else seems to be pretty great with it.