Tips for setting up a monitor for live gigs

[Jan-Westerdijk]

Hello, i’m using my Helix with 4cm in combination with a Mesa Lonestar Special. I want to use a monitor, just for me.

I have connected the monitor to mono left xlr and in the settings i have set the volume button to xlr. This works kinda.

I dont like the sound of my monitor this way. How do set it so that I can use a cab in between the helix and my monitor and not affect my amp. And stil use a separate volume for the monitor. 

Regards, Jan

 

 

[jws1982]

Use a separate path with a cab or IR, then set the output to XLR only. 

 

Or, just put a mic on your Mesa cab and run that to the wedge.  That’d probably be easier. 

[dandesy]

What’s wrong with the lone star for monitoring?

[Jan-Westerdijk]

Our band doesnt have a good pa with monitors, so it’s difficult to hear my self playing without getting to loud..i beliefe its a well known issue ;-)

[Jan-Westerdijk]

2 hours ago, jws1982 said:

Use a separate path with a cab or IR, then set the output to XLR only. 

 

Or, just put a mic on your Mesa cab and run that to the wedge.  That’d probably be easier. 

Thanks, i tried a seperate path, perhaps i did it wrong.

I will try it again.

[jbuhajla]

Ideally you want your mic'ed signal in your wedge. Or, put in a "send" and route that send to a separate signal path with an amp/cab model. Then route that signal to your wedge

[Jan-Westerdijk]

12 minutes ago, jbuhajla said:

Ideally you want your mic'ed signal in your wedge. Or, put in a "send" and route that send to a separate signal path with an amp/cab model. Then route that signal to your wedge

 I’m not shure what you mean by put in a send..

Do you mean just a send block and no return block to out XLR and the an XLR cable to my monitor ? I’m confused 

 

Thanks for the help

 

 

[HonestOpinion]

44 minutes ago, Jan-Westerdijk said:

Our band doesnt have a good pa with monitors, so it’s difficult to hear my self playing without getting to loud..i beliefe its a well known issue ;-)

 

By all means find the setup you prefer but I might go for a more low-tech solution and try and get my amp up on an amp stand or leaned back and more in my ears so I could hear it without having to crank it too loud. Also keep in mind that if you have your Lonestar behind you also have your guitar in the mix in your monitor wedge in front of you, you may get some phase cancellation. This could definitely make it more difficult to hear your guitar.

[HonestOpinion]

3 hours ago, jws1982 said:

...

 

Or, just put a mic on your Mesa cab and run that to the wedge.  That’d probably be easier. 

 

Or just run out direct to the board from the Helix and supplement the Lonestar's volume with the wedge. Again, the OP may want to place the Lonestar at ear level and to the side or angle it enough to reduce phase cancellation that can result from a wedge and guitar amp that are pointed at each other.

[Jan-Westerdijk]

9 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

By all means find the setup you prefer but I might go for a more low-tech solution and try and get my amp up on an amp stand or leaned back and more in my ears so I could hear it without having to crank it too loud. Also keep in mind that if you have your Lonestar behind you also have your guitar in the mix in your monitor wedge in front of you, you may get some phase cancellation. This could definitely make it more difficult to hear your guitar.

Thanks for the advice, but i tried that option. ‘T could be me but i wasn’t happy with it. I think my ears are not as good as they where. The music from a amp  behind my back doesn't reach my ears that well.  So i’m trying a other solution.

 

But thanks for your help and possible solution. 

[Jan-Westerdijk]

2 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Or just run out direct to the board from the Helix and supplement your Lonestar's volume with your monitor. Again, you may want to place your Lonestar at ear level and to the side or angle it enough to reduce phase cancellation that can result from a monitor and guitar amp that are pointed at each other.

I dont understand what you mean by phase cancelation. ?

[HonestOpinion]

25 minutes ago, Jan-Westerdijk said:

I dont understand what you mean by phase cancelation. ?

 

When the sound waves from one identical sound source (your guitar) are generated from two speakers, for example your monitor wedge and your guitar amp, if they are pointed at each other the sound waves interact/collide in such a way that they cancel out certain frequencies. This can result in a dull sound and make it much harder to hear for example the mids and highs in your guitar output. In the studio you can even intentionally reverse the phase on one of two identical tracks and ALL frequencies can be made to cancel each other making it sound like there is no output whatsoever.

 

Phase cancellation is also related to distance. How far apart your two sound sources are from each other affects at which point in the two frequencies' respective cycles the two speakers interact.  So the two sound sources' distance as well as how directly they are pointed at each other can impact the degree of cancellation.

 

https://www.sageaudio.com/blog/pre-mastering-tips/phase-cancellation.php

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/phase-cancellation/

[Jan-Westerdijk]

4 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

When the sound waves from one identical sound source (your guitar) are generated from two speakers, for example your monitor wedge and your guitar amp, if they are pointed at each other the sound waves interact/collide in such a way that they cancel out certain frequencies. This can result in a dull sound and make it much harder to hear for example the mids and highs in your guitar output. In the studio you can even intentionally reverse the phase on one of two identical tracks and ALL frequencies can be made to cancel each other making it sound like their is no output.

 

https://www.sageaudio.com/blog/pre-mastering-tips/phase-cancellation.php

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/phase-cancellation/

Wauw thanks,  never heard of that before.

So it would help to let the wedge and  amp face an diffent angle so the sound waves do not collide head on ? Mayby variate in height also ?

Or are the same wavelength/frequenties  in a smal space enough to cancel each other out

[HonestOpinion]

1 hour ago, Jan-Westerdijk said:

Wauw thanks,  never heard of that before.

So it would help to let the wedge and  amp face an diffent angle so the sound waves do not collide head on ? Mayby variate in height also ?

Or are the same wavelength/frequenties  in a smal space enough to cancel each other out

 

Exactly! Height, distance, and angle can all be used and sometimes with a relatively small adjustment the sound will gain a lot of clarity and/or volume.

 

Note: I find sometimes just adjusting the EQ to help my guitar cut through the band mix better can spare me from having to crank things up. What sounded too bright when designing a preset in your living room may sound just right sitting in your band's mix.

[Jan-Westerdijk]

7 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Exactly! Height, distance, and angle can all be used and sometimes with a relatively small adjustment the sound will gain a lot of clarity and/or volume.

Thanks, i will use this info when setting up my amp and monitor. 

Tomorrow i wil try and setup with a micdirect to the  monitor and try a different angle.

 

Thank you all for the help

[Jan-Westerdijk]

I Made a separate Path for my wedge and added a cab sim, this works fine. 

 

Thanks everyone for the help.