How to switch setlists on the floorboard

[Thark]

I'm looking for the (probably simple) way to switch setlists while playing live. Haven't been able to find any mention of this in the forum and scanning the manual hasn't produced anything (although it's entirely possible that I missed it).

[rd2rk]

By simple I'm guessing you mean "press this, then that". No. BUT... if you have a programmable midi pedal (such as the FCB1010) you can program it to send:

 

CC#32 with a Value of 000-007 (Setlist 1-8) + PC#000-127 (01A-32D) + CC#69 with a Value of 000-007 (Snapshot 1-8).

 

If you press the PRESET button, then select the Preset you want, the correct PC/CC#s and Values to program into your controller will show up at the bottom of the screen. Or, if you can remember CC#32 for the Setlist and CC#69 for the Snapshot , in GLOBALS, set Preset numbering to 000-127 instead of 01A-32D, then the PC#s will show up on the scribble strips.

 

NOTE: I just tested this with my FCB1010. It worked, but you need to use PC5 to send the PC#, as that controller sends AFTER the CC#s. This will vary with the device you're using as a controller. Also, switching too quickly MAY crash the Helix. It only happened once in my tests, so it may have been an anomaly. Be sure to set PC RECEIVE to MIDI and make sure that the sending device is on the same MIDI Channel as the Helix Base Channel.

 

[HonestOpinion]

On 9/4/2018 at 7:32 PM, Thark said:

I'm looking for the (probably simple) way to switch setlists while playing live. Haven't been able to find any mention of this in the forum and scanning the manual hasn't produced anything (although it's entirely possible that I missed it).

 

On 9/5/2018 at 8:23 PM, rd2rk said:

By simple I'm guessing you mean "press this, then that". No. BUT... if you have a programmable midi pedal (such as the FCB1010) you can program it to send:

 

CC#32 with a Value of 000-007 (Setlist 1-8) + PC#000-127 (01A-32D) + CC#69 with a Value of 000-007 (Snapshot 1-8).

 

If you press the PRESET button, then select the Preset you want, the correct PC/CC#s and Values to program into your controller will show up at the bottom of the screen. Or, if you can remember CC#32 for the Setlist and CC#69 for the Snapshot , in GLOBALS, set Preset numbering to 000-127 instead of 01A-32D, then the PC#s will show up on the scribble strips.

 

NOTE: I just tested this with my FCB1010. It worked, but you need to use PC5 to send the PC#, as that controller sends AFTER the CC#s. This will vary with the device you're using as a controller. Also, switching too quickly MAY crash the Helix. It only happened once in my tests, so it may have been an anomaly. Be sure to set PC RECEIVE to MIDI and make sure that the sending device is on the same MIDI Channel as the Helix Base Channel.

 

 

Yup, no way I know of to change the setlists directly from the Helix footswitches unless maybe you send MIDI setlist change message from a footswitch by using the loopback trick and jumpering the  Helix MIDI OUT to the MID IN.

 

If you decide to go the external MIDI pedal route as rd2rk discusses there is some good info on page 10 of the Helix Owners manual (illustration referred to is in manual):

TIP: The dark text above Knob 2 displays the required MIDI messages for recalling the Helix device's setlists, presets, and/or snapshots from external MIDI devices or software. In the illustration above, the FACTORY 1 setlist is recalled with a CC32 message of 007, the 16B Bottle Message preset is recalled with a PC (program change) message of 005, and SNAPSHOT 1 is recalled with a CC69 message of 000.

[rd2rk]

2 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Yup, no way I know of to change the setlists directly from the Helix footswitches unless maybe you send MIDI setlist change message from a footswitch by using the loopback trick and jumpering the  Helix MIDI OUT to the MID IN.

 

 

Unfortunately, unlike the FCB, which can send multiple messages with a single pedal press, the Helix will only send ONE message at a time, so the loopback trick won't really get it for you either. One nice thing about the FCB (if you've got the floorspace to use it), is that in addition to the 100 presets that you can set up to jump around in the Helix, you also get TWO additional Expression Pedals! GO CRAZY!

 

EDIT - Should you decide to go with an FCB, be sure to get the UNO chip upgrade. You'll then have FIVE additional Stomp controllers and improved Expression Pedal action. And get the ControlCenter Editor, save your sanity when programming it!

[HonestOpinion]

23 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

Unfortunately, unlike the FCB, which can send multiple messages with a single pedal press, the Helix will only send ONE message at a time, so the loopback trick won't really get it for you either. ...

 

I own an FCB myself and they are a great option if you have the floor space and don't mind two large pedalboards.  There are also smaller MIDI pedals that will do the trick if you want less options but a smaller footprint.

 

Hmm, did not do extensive testing but I was able to get the loopback trick to work correctly every time by using two instant commands(lightning bolt). First set 'Global Settings' -->  'MIDI/Tempo'  -->  'MIDI Thru' = 'Off'. This is a critical step or you will get infinitely looping MIDI commands once you connect the MIDI cable. Then connect a single MIDI cable from the MIDI In to the MIDI Out. I then set up, named (e.g. "JumpToHiwatt") and saved a blank preset with only two instant commands(set these up in the Command Center) and nothing else. Keep in mind the MIDI numbers start at 0 so everything is offset by +1 except for some reason the snapshots.  I listed an example below. Note some of the parameter values are fixed and some require you to select the setlist, bank, and snapshot you are trying to jump to.

 

Instant Command #1

Command = "Bank/Program"

MIDI Channel = "Base"

CC#00 = "0"    (Always set this to zero)

CC#32 = "5"   (This is the number of the setlist  e.g. pick a number between 0-7. Select one of the eight available setlists)

Program = "3" (This is the number of the preset [these are set up in the Helix in banks of four]. Pick a number between 0-127)

 

Instant Command #2

Command = "MIDI CC"

MIDI Channel = "Base"

CC = "69"    (Always select "69" (grin), this is the CC number designated for snapshots)

Value = "3"  (This is the snapshot you want to jump to e.g. pick a number between 1-8(no offset). Pick from one of the eight available snapshots)

 

Once your preset is setup with the instant commands you can click on the footswitch for that preset and it will jump you to the setlist, bank/preset, and snapshot you set indicated in the instant commands.

 

Important Note: Once you have the instant commands saved in your new preset you will need to unplug one of the ends of the MIDI cable if you want to go back and edit the preset as otherwise selecting that preset will jump you every time to the preset you pointed it to in the instant commands and not allow you to edit it.

[rd2rk]

6 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

Hmm, did not do extensive testing but I was able to get the loopback trick to work correctly every time by using two instant commands(lightning bolt).

 

Cool! Though it seems like whichever method, FCB or Helix Loopback, that the mapping could get messy. I suppose each Preset in your gig setlist could be configured to lead to the next song's Preset, and you could have a saved SETLIST for each band you're in and every different show, and just change them every time the band/gig's setlist changes, and pray that the BL doesn't call a song out of order.....seems so much simpler to take 15 minutes before the gig to create a SETLIST in setlist order, and tell the BL that if he's gonna change the order he needs to give you a moment to get to where you need to be. I'm thinking that this has a very limited application. Nice to know that it can be done, but......

[HonestOpinion]

11 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

Cool! Though it seems like whichever method, FCB or Helix Loopback, that the mapping could get messy. I suppose each Preset in your gig setlist could be configured to lead to the next song's Preset, and you could have a saved SETLIST for each band you're in and every different show, and just change them every time the band/gig's setlist changes, and pray that the BL doesn't call a song out of order.....seems so much simpler to take 15 minutes before the gig to create a SETLIST in setlist order, and tell the BL that if he's gonna change the order he needs to give you a moment to get to where you need to be. I'm thinking that this has a very limited application. Nice to know that it can be done, but......

 

Agree with every point you made here.  Great that it can be done and loopback is a perfectly viable method if you need to change setlists on the fly and don't want to use external switchers.  I would probably go with the FCB or another external pedal if I were going to be jumping between setlists on a regular basis but its nice to have an option to have everything self-contained in the Helix.  For me though and I think many others, we simply don't require setlist changes during a performance.  I just reserve one setlist for the gig and copy every preset I need for that performance there. 

[Thark]

Cool! Thanks for all the great info. And ... as I said in my original post, I did miss the information on page 10 of the manual. Unfortunately, RTFM doesn't always work for me but forums like this do. Thanks again.