Helix, Powercab, and Monitors

[shortspecialbus]

Hey all,

 

I had a question about the best way to accomplish a goal.  Basically, I've been using Reaper to record stuff, via USB from the Helix (and the ASIO driver).  I also have a Powercab 112 hooked up to left XLR out on the Helix for my "amp in the room" sound.  I've also occasionally been using the Powercab for mixing, although it's not very good at it.  I briefly used the ASIO4ALL driver to set helix for input only and use the computer speakers for mixing, but I'm overall not happy with that.  I also have some studio headphones going directly into the Helix that I use for various mixing/monitor type stuff occasionally.

 

I'm planning on picking up some KRK Rokit 6 G3 monitor speakers because I don't like using headphones or the powercab for mixing.  They can be hooked up via (balanced) TRS 1/4" or XLR.  I plan to use them mostly for playback and mixing, although I may end up using them somewhat for a monitor while recording.

 

My questions relate on how to hook all of this up.  Ideally, I'd like the Powercab to be used while playing and recording, while the monitor speakers are used for playback and mixing.  However, I don't believe there's really any good way to do this with everything running through the Helix, is there?  I'm also not sure how to hook these up best.  The only balanced outputs on the Helix are the XLR, and one of those is already in use for the Powercab.  I could maybe switch that to 1/4" unbalanced, but I'd rather not if I don't have to.  I don't really want to use unbalanced 1/4" for the Monitors either.  What I'm leaning towards at the moment is hook everything up via XLR and just reach down and switch plugs around when I'm playing/recording vs mixing, but that's a bit of a pain and I'd like to avoid it.

 

So, to boil this down a bit more:

 

1.) Is it possible to have the monitors and the powercab hooked up to the Helix at the same time but have the powercab only for playing and the monitors only for playback?  If so, how can I do this?  I don't really want to use ASIO4ALL and hook the monitors up to the computer because I have a garbage onboard sound card and don't really want to buy a new one, plus I'm not keen on 1/8" -> XLR.

 

2.) What's the best way to wire this thing all together?  I can't afford a mixing console or anything right now.

 

Apologies if I'm unclear or confusing anywhere.  I'm pretty new to the whole studio/recording thing.

 

Thanks!

 

[gunpointmetal]

Honestly, you're best bet is going to be to use the monitors for monitoring and playback if you don't wanna mess around with complicated cabling or plugging/unplugging stuff to switch speakers. Just out of curiosity, what is the advantage to using the PowerCab for monitoring during tracking? I'm assuming you're recording with some sort of IR/cab model on the Helix anyways, so you KRK monitors would be the most accurate as far as what you're recording and your playback/tracks you're recording to will sound better. 

[shortspecialbus]

The short version is that it's what I'm used to, playing out of a mono amp.  Headphones or speakers slightly weird me out when I've tried them recently or in the past.  It's dumb.

 

I think you're right and I'm just going to have to get past it, honestly.  I need to re-learn how to play the guitar anyways, I haven't played in about 10 years after selling my stuff for rent money until my wife got me a new one for Christmas this year, and I wasn't very good in the first place.

 

Thank you!  I'm still interested if anyone else has any ideas, but that's probably going to just be the way I need to go with it.

[cruisinon2]

28 minutes ago, shortspecialbus said:

The short version is that it's what I'm used to, playing out of a mono amp.  Headphones or speakers slightly weird me out when I've tried them recently or in the past.  It's dumb.

 

I think you're right and I'm just going to have to get past it, honestly.  I need to re-learn how to play the guitar anyways, I haven't played in about 10 years after selling my stuff for rent money until my wife got me a new one for Christmas this year, and I wasn't very good in the first place.

 

Thank you!  I'm still interested if anyone else has any ideas, but that's probably going to just be the way I need to go with it.

 

It'll be a whole lot easier to just do everything through the monitors... plus, that way you'll have continuity. The tone you hear while laying down tracks will be exactly what you hear in the playback. That's not gonna happen using the Powercab to monitor while you're recording, but then listening back on something else. Speakers account for at least half of your tone, so what you hear from the Powercab won't be the same as the playback through the monitors. 

 

And trying to mix with the Powercab is a non-starter... even if you had two of them. They're simply not designed for that. You need a pair of reference monitors to mix multitrack recordings.

[shortspecialbus]

Right, I fully agree on the Powercab being inappropriate for mix, which is why I'm getting the monitors in the first place. I was just hoping to have a dumb special snowflake setup, but you guys are right that the monitors will just be better for it even during playing/recording.

 

I guess I'll relegate the Powercab to "screwing around" or "playing elsewhere" duties, which you're right that it's better suited for than recording duties anyways.

 

It's not really what I wanted to hear, but you're both undoubtedly correct and I'll probably end up liking it better after a day or two of adjustment anyways!  Soon enough I'll be forced to stop focusing on equipment and actually address my terrible playing and practice a ton more.  That's affecting my recording a lot more than amp choice!

 

Thanks!

[jmendicino]

I wanted to do exactly the same thing, and if you find there is a straight-forward solution. please post it.

 

Personally I find I play better thru the power cab because it just feels better. And when recording I like the guitar to be just a bit louder than it will sound in the final mix so I'm not playing harder to hear myself.  I constantly struggle with hearing the guitar vs not peaking the recording of the guitar and was hoping using the power cab might be a solution. 

[zappazapper]

Don't mix through the Powercab. Its speaker is designed to tonally shape the sound of guitar, which usually involves, at the very least, huge cuts to the high end. 

 

Listening to playback on studio monitors while having a guitar signal come from a guitar amp (or in your case a Powercab) is absolutely a reasonable and acceptable way to track guitars - in fact I often do it myself, mostly because I want to be able to feedback my guitar when necessary. In my case I have a separate audio interface that my studio monitors are connected to, but it can be done with the Helix alone. 

 

There's no reason why connecting your Powercab to the Helix with a 1/4" guitar cable is something to avoid. There's no difference in signal quality between a balanced (XLR) and an unbalanced (1/4" TS) signal unless you're running a particularly long cable run (balanced connections use common-mode rejection to reduce interference). There may be a difference in signal level but that's what volume knobs are for. 

 

Connect your Powercab to your Helix using a 1/4" cable. 

Connect your studio monitors to your Helix using XLR cables.

Set Reaper to output to your Helix XLR outs.

Since your Powercab has its own built in speaker modeling, you'll want to set up your patches so that the signal going to your Powercab doesn't have any cabinet modeling but the signal you're recording in Reaper does (there are a wealth of threads on this forum that deal with multiple outputs). You might want to first play around with your tone coming through Reaper into your studio monitors just to get a cabinet model that sounds somewhat close to what you're hearing come from the Powercab. Or you can record the guitar signal without cabinet modeling and then reroute the track back into the Helix so you can audition different cabinet models during mixdown (again, there are a ton of threads on this forum dealing with reamping).