MIDI help please! Using Helix to change Banks in Strymon Big Sky.

[Verne-Bunsen]

Hello all,

 

I am quite uninitiated when it comes to MIDI, this is pretty much the first time I've tried to actually employ it. I know what commands I need to generate, but I'm not sure how to tell Helix how to do it. Or for that matter if it is smoething that can be done within Helix.

 

What I am trying to do is assign one Helix footswitch to issue a "Bank-UP" command and a second footswitch to issue a "Bank-DOWN" command to my Strymon Big Sky. I don't want it to change presets or make any changes other than to scroll the Banks. According to the Strymon guide, the commands required are as such:

 

Changing Banks with an external MIDI Controller

To Bank Up or Down via MIDI, you would need to mimic the MIDI behavior of the onboard footswitches with your MIDI controller.

Bank Up = Send MIDI CC #’s 81+82 with values 0 when pressed and 127 when released at the same time.

Bank Down = Send MIDI CC #’s 80+82 with values 0 when pressed and 127 when released at the same time.

 

In Command Center I can see how to send one CC# with one value, but sending two CC#s, much less assigning different values for "press" and "release", is eluding me. Is this something that I can do? Any help is much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

-VB-

[rd2rk]

1 hour ago, Verne-Bunsen said:

Changing Banks with an external MIDI Controller

To Bank Up or Down via MIDI, you would need to mimic the MIDI behavior of the onboard footswitches with your MIDI controller.

Bank Up = Send MIDI CC #’s 81+82 with values 0 when pressed and 127 when released at the same time.

Bank Down = Send MIDI CC #’s 80+82 with values 0 when pressed and 127 when released at the same time.

 

I'm not finding that in the Big Sky User Manual. Please provide a link to the document where you found that, and I'll have a look.

[Verne-Bunsen]

6 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

I'm not finding that in the Big Sky User Manual. Please provide a link to the document where you found that, and I'll have a look.

Thanks for taking the time! It’s here:

 

https://www.strymon.net/using-midi-control-pedals-2/

[rd2rk]

It sounds like they're asking for a "Momentary" CC. Helix can't do that. Momentary NOTE yes, but not CC.

 

FCB1010/UNO can, but even there, you can't send two different CC#s at once. You can do this:

CC#81 Value 000/127 THEN CC#82 Value 000/127, but the messages are not sent concurrently.

 

Because MIDI transmits messages and values in a stream, not concurrently (AFAIK), I don't see how this would be possible.

 

If you can link me to the source of those instructions, maybe I can figure out what they're taking about.

[robertgoddard]

5 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

Because MIDI transmits messages and values in a stream, not concurrently (AFAIK), I don't see how this would be possible.

MIDI does transmit in a stream, but it's via the clock cycle.  Each note/command is streamed in order, but all in 1 clock cycle.  So if the CC#s were on during the same clock cycle, that's essentially at the same time.  

[rd2rk]

I've got to wonder if anybody at Strymon ever actually tried that. Maybe they're saying, in a roundabout way, "Nah, can't do that!" because they follow up with:

 

"If you are using a MIDI controller to send MIDI Program Change messages, you can use that to just recall the presets directly without having to bank up or down. Unless you plan on selecting the presets with the switches on the pedal itself, there is no need to bank up or down."

 

Anyhow, until Helix can send Momentary CCs, or multiple CCs per single button press, it's not going to work even if the messages don't need to be concurrent.

[rd2rk]

2 minutes ago, robertgoddard said:

MIDI does transmit in a stream, but it's via the clock cycle.  Each note/command is streamed in order, but all in 1 clock cycle.  So if the CC#s were on during the same clock cycle, that's essentially at the same time.  

 

Which would make it a timing thing. Would that be consistently predictable? Or "sometimes"?

[Verne-Bunsen]

Ok, thank you for clarifying all that. The trouble with being unfamiliar with a technology is that you can’t necessarily tell the difference between “basic functionality” and “completely impossible”, haha!

[rd2rk]

7 minutes ago, robertgoddard said:

MIDI does transmit in a stream, but it's via the clock cycle.  Each note/command is streamed in order, but all in 1 clock cycle.  So if the CC#s were on during the same clock cycle, that's essentially at the same time.  

 

IOW, IF the Helix could send multiple CCs per press, you' have to send:

 

CC#81 Value 000

CC#81 Value 127

CC#82 Value 000

CC#82 Value 127

 

And hope they all got transmitted in one clock cycle?

[rd2rk]

2 minutes ago, Verne-Bunsen said:

Ok, thank you for clarifying all that. The trouble with being unfamiliar with a technology is that you can’t necessarily tell the difference between “basic functionality” and “completely impossible”, haha!

 

Multiple messages per press is an oft requested feature, maybe in 2.8.......

[robertgoddard]

No, just during a clock cycle..... it's computer lingo....

 

Basically, it's looking for CC 80 and 82 to be at 0 when pressed and then for them both to be at 127 when released.  This needs to happen at the same time, so within the same "stream" of data.  Same thing for the other way, 81 and 82 from 0 to 127.  This isn't momentary, it's the state of each switch.  I think you could possibly set the switches from momentary to toggle.  Setup one switch to toggle both CC 81 and 82 from 0 and 127.   Setup the other switch from to toggle CC 80 and 82 from 0 and 127.

[rd2rk]

22 minutes ago, robertgoddard said:

No, just during a clock cycle..... it's computer lingo....

 

Basically, it's looking for CC 80 and 82 to be at 0 when pressed and then for them both to be at 127 when released.  This needs to happen at the same time, so within the same "stream" of data.  Same thing for the other way, 81 and 82 from 0 to 127.  This isn't momentary, it's the state of each switch.  I think you could possibly set the switches from momentary to toggle.  Setup one switch to toggle both CC 81 and 82 from 0 and 127.   Setup the other switch from to toggle CC 80 and 82 from 0 and 127.

 

The problem being that Helix can only send one message per press.

 

If you can use two otherwise blank presets, you COULD try this:

 

 

 

Unfortunately, snapshots won't work either, since repeatedly pressing a Snaphot will sen PCs but not CCs.

 

 

Strymon UP.hlx

Strymon DOWN.hlx