Helix LT - flabby broken up distortion tones. Help!

[StrayAlien]

Hi all,

 

This is my first post here.  I am a new helix LT owner and and am struggling to find any good medium to high gain tone.  The lower end sounds pretty awful and, well, blobby or bubbly or flabby - not quite sure how to describe it.  It lacks clarity and sounds like something breaking up.

 

The guitar is a 1989 Fender US Strat with Seymour Duncan JB JR in bridge, Seymour Duncan hot-stack in neck, and the Fender OEM single coil in the middle.  I have a headrush FRFR 108 and Beyerdynamic DT 100 studio headphones.  The sound is the same in both. The cable is new, of good quality, and only about 6 feet long.

 

For practically any medium/high gain preset I get the flabby bottom end. If I just drop an amp / cab onto a blank preset with some gain I get it.

 

Clean sounds seem alright.

 

* I have tried low cut from 80Hz through 150Hz or so with no difference.
* The global guitar pad on helps but does not resolve it
* I have played with every option for input impedance and even setting it to 10 I can still hear it.
* It is there for all pickups, including the middle-position stock fender single coil, so we're not dealing with a 'high-output' pickup issue. 

 

If I just drop a (say) plexi / cab onto a blank preset I'll get it, no fiddling.  From there it seems the only way to lose the flabbiness is to lower the master volume on the plexi. But then we lose gain.

 

I have played with every setting there is inc the high & low cuts, the eq settings for the amp/cab.  Bias, swag, biasx, etc etc but not much joy.  I've soaked in mr Sadites vid on EQ and tried some stuff but no joy. 

 

I also have an Epiphone LP Custom 'midnight special' with EMG 81/85 pickups and needless to say it also gives the same result so it isn't dodgy wiring on the Strat.

 

If I plug the guitar into my old Boss GT3 effects unit I get none of this on any gain tones. So at this point I am pretty much ready to take the Helix back - if I can.  I mean, with a stock middle single coil it ought not to be getting any flabby distortion artefacts (if that is what they are).

 

All help and advice appreciated.

 

Greg.

[rd2rk]

One man's flabby distortion artifacts are another man's djent :-).

Try various distortions with the gains turned down and output up before the amp. Most commonly used for metal seems to be the old 808, since it cuts lows and boosts mids.

That said, I have a FRFR112 and there are a lot of Helix amps that cause a nasty noise that seems to be emphasized by the Tweeter. Like you, I've tried every trick in the book to dial it out with eq. They sound much better through a regular guitar cab, to the point where I've only been using the FRFR112 for Bass. 

 

[davidsos]

Perhaps you are overloading the input to the FRFR 108 which is causing distortion in the wrong place. There is a signal limit led on the FRFR, not sure if that's a clipping indicator or something else, you might want to look into it. If overloading the input to the FRFR I would imagine that turning down the Volume knob of the LT might do the same as when you turn down the master of the plexi amp sim. Check the global settings of the LT to see if the output is set to instrument or line and how that matches the FRFR 108. Also the contour switch of the FRFR can cause issues if you are playing loudly. If the problem is due to overloading, once you sort that out you can get gain/distortion using the drive settings of the amp/sim.

When I picked up my LT at GC I played an American Strat through the LT which went into an FRFR 108 and it was awesome.

[StrayAlien]

rd2rk/davidsos, thanks for responding.

 

The sound is the same with the DT100 headphones, so my feeling is it is not the 108.  Unless the DT100 and the 108 have the same issue.   

 

The 108 takes a line level input so I've got that set in the LT global settings.  I've not looked at the led on the 108 but will do tonight.  Thanks. At this point, I'm only playing at domestic levels so nothing is being pushed.

 

I have tried the TS808 with gain down thing as well but still the same.  I only gave it a quick go, but will try some more. Thanks.

 

I guess I really don't understand why people seem to pick up an LT, drop an amp/cab on a preset and get a great gain sound when it doesn't happen for me.  At this point, after a spend of $1500 AUD the old Boss GT3 sounds better.  Go figure!  Maybe I should have got the GT1000 after all.  Or the Katana.  Sigh.

 

All help appreciated.

 

Greg.

[rd2rk]

1 hour ago, StrayAlien said:

rd2rk/davidsos, thanks for responding.

 

The sound is the same with the DT100 headphones, so my feeling is it is not the 108.  Unless the DT100 and the 108 have the same issue.   

 

The 108 takes a line level input so I've got that set in the LT global settings.  I've not looked at the led on the 108 but will do tonight.  Thanks. At this point, I'm only playing at domestic levels so nothing is being pushed.

 

I have tried the TS808 with gain down thing as well but still the same.  I only gave it a quick go, but will try some more. Thanks.

 

I guess I really don't understand why people seem to pick up an LT, drop an amp/cab on a preset and get a great gain sound when it doesn't happen for me.  At this point, after a spend of $1500 AUD the old Boss GT3 sounds better.  Go figure!  Maybe I should have got the GT1000 after all.  Or the Katana.  Sigh.

 

All help appreciated.

 

Greg.

 

Some people like coke, some like Pepsi. 

Find what works for you, evaluate whether the total usefulness is worth the cost and, if not, return the device within the trial period.

Helix is only one of the many available option - BOSS, Headrush, Fractal, MOOER, Kemper - it's a great time to be a digital musician!

[BBD_123]

Greg, what is your master volume knob on the LT unit set at?

[StrayAlien]

BBD_123: Thanks. typically about 1/3 volume (about '10 Oclock') or so. 

[gunpointmetal]

Is there any way to record what you're hearing? It might be easier to offer advice with that information. 

[gunxsword]

On 10/11/2019 at 8:22 AM, StrayAlien said:

BBD_123: Thanks. typically about 1/3 volume (about '10 Oclock') or so. 

An important but often missed tip is to max out the physical volume knob on the helix (or set it as high as practical) and adjust the overall volume within the digital realm, like the amp's  master volume.

 

I play med to high gain with some physical pedals. I used to set the physical volume about halfway and had the same issues as you, along with getting very anaemic sounds.

 

The above tip actually came from some Line 6 engineers in a video that sweetwater did when v2.8 update dropped.

[BBD_123]

18 hours ago, gunxsword said:

An important but often missed tip is to max out the physical volume knob on the helix (or set it as high as practical) and adjust the overall volume within the digital realm, like the amp's  master volume. 

 

It very much depends what else is in the chain. For example, I run Helix floor into a Yamaha MG06 mixer in my practice room rig (1/4" cables). Anything more than about 12:00 on the Helix master volume knob can cause the mixer input to clip.

[StrayAlien]

gunpointmetal, gunxsword, bbd_123,

 

Thanks, I've been doing some more exploring.  I think with the global guitar pad on and copying and noodling with some presets that sound okay I'll get there.  I downloaded some quite high gain presets from the line6 web site and some actually sound pretty good on the strat.  So, there is a formula in there somewhere that can have things sounds good - I just have to do the forensics and work backwards to learn what those presets do.  Part of my education on modelling I guess.

 

If I find the magic sauce I'll post back here. :-)

 

Thanks again.