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DrRighteous

Legacy delays are very quiet and the feedback range is not linear

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I used to own an Echo Pro rack, and I miss the Binson and Space Echo delays. So I got an HX Effect to checkout the delays I remember, but something is wrong. For example if I set up an HX tape emulation delay block, I can get it sounding nice very quickly. But if I load up a Legacy delay block to compare them, well first off the volume is way too quiet to hear in a mix. So I boost the volume by the 6db they allow on those legacy blocks, and still it's so much quieter than the HX delays that if I wanted to mix and match I would have to lower the volume on all my non-legacy blocks, and then boost the output of the whole unit somehow.

Additionally, the feedback control range on the HX delays make sense, and remind me of the Echo Pro. But the Legacy versions are terrible, you really need to keep the feedback at or above 90% if you want to hear more than one delay. Below that and you can only hear the first repeat, below 50% and not even the first repeat.

Am I doing something wrong with the legacy blocks?
I mean I can get the HX delays set up, sounding fine, so the global settings are all reasonable.

Has anyone else even noticed this huge volume discrepancy?

 

I have updated to the most recent firmware.

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I never had the Echo Pro, but that Benson model has always behaved like that, as far as I know. That's how it was on the M Series, at least. You have to have the Feedback up pretty high for it to start churning out repeats.

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Thanks for the info - my memory of the Benson might be better than reality.

The Legacy tape echo is also bonkers to me. I can have two heads turned on, feedback at 70% and using a half note, I hear some (weak) repeats, but below that, like a quarter or eighth and I hear zero repeats at 70% feedback. If it was maxing out delay time because of the tempo (80bpm), the longer delays wouldn't be heard. At least there is an HX version of the Space Echo, I will focus on that - I just think the legacy effects are unusable. Possibly because I'm using line level in from a mixer, not instrument in from a guitar?

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Hm, I'm using the legacy FX all the time (especially delays and reverbs) and didn't notice anything weird. But then, as Phil, I only owned an M13 in the past, so maybe I'm missing the full story.

Anyhow, as far as levels are concerned, yes, some of the legacy models emulating vintage gear have pretty low FX signal volumes. Also, some of them (for instance the Tape Echo) allow you to chose between Dry Thru on and off. With that set to off, the dry signal is affected as well, but I don't hear the perceived level being affected much (at least not on the Tape Echo, which I'm just playing through).

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Fwiw, yes, the "mix" parameter is sort of illogical to me as well. It does of course adjust the balance between dry and wet, but if it was a straight balance function, you'd expect the balance to be 50/50 at 50%. But as is, the dry signal stays at original volume until 50% on the new HX models but it takes around 70% with the legacy models until the dry signal drops in volume. Both of these methods, while possibly making practical sense at least for the HX models, aren't logical. A mix pot should either a) shift the balance between dry and wet or b) only mix in the wet signal (comparable to a send on a mixing console). As is, it's a mixture. Until 50% (or 70% on the legacy models) it works as a mixing console send, above it adjusts the balance.

It's only because of this illogical behaviour that we need the level fader for compensation - personally, I'd defenitely prefer independent levels for both dry and wet on all models. That'd be consistent throughout all models and not confusing.

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That's a really good catch on the Mix issue! I set all blocks to 50% and adjust parameters from there. On the Legacy, switching to 70% seems to sound like the 50% does on non-legacy models (as you say). The 50% settings was keeping my first delay repeat from being equal to my input, by a good amount which was certainly adding to the low volume issue. I still boost the effect by 6db, to have 70% mix sound like 50/50 - which is bonkers.

 

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Yeah well, as said, a seperate level for wet/dry would solve all these issues and be as easy to adjust.

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