Helix & Cubase as a DAW controller: confused.....

[Flaminia]

Hi all,

 

After some days trying to figure out how to use the Helix floor as a daw controller on my MBP (Mojave), I hope someone would be so kind to help me with it; it works with audio and playback midi, not recording midi: can't get a controller (midi-out on a keyboard, or midi out from my Axon AX100 guitar controller with a Ghost piezo guitar system) to input a midi-signal

The goal is to use it as a easy to use live set to use with my midi-guitar.....

 

So: do I need midi-cables? or is everything transferred trough midi?

Do I need another midi (and/or audio) (USB) converter?

 

At my studio it works very well using a Mac Pro 5.1 (upgraded) Mojave/Tascam DM3200 mixer/keyboard/axon: I can do what I want with tracks and inputs/outputs

The strange thing is that I have almost the same setup in the studio and with the laptop, but..... the Tascam DM mixer uses firewire for audio in/out and a seperate USB midi in/out on the mixer, also midi in/out/trough (there I connect my keyboard/axon controllers)

As I understand all audio and midi goes trough the Helix only by USB, but whatever I try, I can't get my keyboard out to send signals to a VST-instrument..... How do I do that? or is it even possible?

 

Also, I'm from Holland, so English is not my native language: that doesn't make it easier ;-)

 

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Chris.

[rd2rk]

Your KB is connected via MIDI DIN to the Helix MIDI IN, and set to a different MIDI Channel than the Helix BASE Channel?

MIDI THRU and MIDI OVER USB are enabled on Helix?

Helix is the INPUT DEVICE on the Cubase MIDI RECORD track, with the MIDI Channel on that track set to the same channel as the KB (NOT Helix BASE Channel)?

You've used a MIDI MONITOR within Cubase to check that the correct MIDI signal is being received?

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, Flaminia said:

As I understand all audio and midi goes trough the Helix only by USB, but whatever I try, I can't get my keyboard out to send signals to a VST-instrument..... How do I do that? or is it even possible?

 

Hi,

 

You can choose to turn off MIDI over USB in the Global Settings > MIDI/Tempo.

 

Also selectable are MIDI PC Receive and Send = Off/MIDI/USB/MIDI+USB.

 

Connect your MIDI out from your Controller Keyboard to the MIDI In on the Helix and whatever MIDI messages are fed in they can be directed out via USB or the MIDI Out/Thru port on the rear of the Helix. Make sure the the MIDI channel on the Keyboard and the SoftSynth in Cubase are the same and when you hit middle C on the Keyboard the Synth should sound that note.

 

Ik realiseer me dat je Nederlands bent, maar misschien kun je deze onofficiële Helix MIDI-gids lezen.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nynknyencnvqar/The Unofficial Helix MIDI Guide.pdf?dl=0
 

Ik hoop dat dit helpt en logisch is

 

 

[Flaminia]

Ah, tnx DataC!

 

Yes, indeed, I'm from Holland, but I'll reply in English so that it could be helpfull to others as well

I'm gonna try your suggestions and read all about the unofficial Helix midi guide!

 

Cheers mate!

[datacommando]

17 minutes ago, Flaminia said:

Ah, tnx DataC!

 

Yes, indeed, I'm from Holland, but I'll reply in English so that it could be helpfull to others as well

I'm gonna try your suggestions and read all about the unofficial Helix midi guide!

 

Cheers mate!

 

Blij om te helpen. Ik hoop dat je alles correct communiceert via MIDI.
Tot ziens.

 

[Flaminia]

Whoah!

First thing I noticed is these global settings you pointed me to.....

I use my Helix floor with my feet and almost never do something on the Helix-screen and use HX edit for my edits

(I thought it was called floor and edit for those reasons) ;-)

So I just discovered that there are many more settings on the Helix instead of HX edit! and these globals are not there!

Now that I understand that, there's so much (for me) to explore: learned again something today!

 

Tnx again DataC!

[datacommando]

46 minutes ago, Flaminia said:

Whoah!

First thing I noticed is these global settings you pointed me to.....

I use my Helix floor with my feet and almost never do something on the Helix-screen and use HX edit for my edits

(I thought it was called floor and edit for those reasons) ;-)

So I just discovered that there are many more settings on the Helix instead of HX edit! and these globals are not there!

Now that I understand that, there's so much (for me) to explore: learned again something today!

 

Tnx again DataC!

 

Ah, yes, HX Edit is the remote Editor and Librarian for all the HX family of products.

 

Each piece of hardware has Global Setting that are specific to that item. For example, the Helix Floor has the most In/Out connections, and all those foot switches, that are not available on the HX Stomp. So the other than the Global EQ, they are not included in the Editor. That would possibly cause more confusion for some users.

 

It can be a steep learning curve, but take it step by step and read the Owner's Manual and watch YouTube videos and you will soon learn more of what you can achieve with this magic box.

 

If you cannot find an answer for something regarding your Helix, you can post in the forum here. Usually some one will have the answer.

 

Veel plezier met het leren gebruiken, het is erg moeilijk om dit beest te beschadigen.

 

Tot ziens.

[Flaminia]

Another thingy...... now that I found out about the Globals on the Helix itself (I have input in Cubase from guitar controller and keyboard)

 

When I use the setup on my Mac pro with Axon AX100 and DM3200 mixer and Cubase11, everything works as supposed: I can switch on/off the synth, adjust volume and switch to another sound on my guitar (Ghost system) (that goes for the soundswitching on the AX: I have a separate stereo out for that; doesn't work for VST's, but volume knob works and synth off/on too)

 

I installed the same setup on my MacBook Pro, but........ odd things are going on, since now I use the Helix as a Cubase controller

For example: when I switch off the VST synth on my guitar, all volume faders in Cubase go down to zero (no output)

When I switch to another synth on the guitar, Helix chooses another guitar preset

When I play a lot of fast tones with a VST, there are a lot of unwanted semi-tones, resulting in a cacaphony of tones and the laptop finally plays randomly tones and makes a song by its own! Haha!)

 

Since, I don't want to change anything on my PC-setup: that works well (don't fix it untill its broken) I guess there's only one or two swithches on the Helix (or probably on the Axxon?) which need to be adjusted

Like a midi trough setting or omni, something like that

Now I hope, someone says: "ah, that's easy, just change......."

But I'm fearing there's something more difficult things going on

 

 

 

 

[datacommando]

58 minutes ago, Flaminia said:

When I switch to another synth on the guitar, Helix chooses another guitar preset

 

Godverdomme!

 

58 minutes ago, Flaminia said:

For example: when I switch off the VST synth on my guitar, all volume faders in Cubase go down to zero (no output)

 

I would guess you must have the faders in Cubase mapped to respond to the guitar

NOTE: I use Logic Pro X on the Mac - I haven't used Cubase since the days of the Atari ST.

 

58 minutes ago, Flaminia said:

When I switch to another synth on the guitar, Helix chooses another guitar preset

 

This is probably a MIDI problem where the Helix is responding to the changes from your guitar. Ensure that the are not set to the same channel and you guitar MIDI signals go to MIDI THRU or you could turn OFF MIDI PC Receive in the Globals.

Grab a MIDI Monitor to figure out what messages are going where.
https://www.snoize.com/midimonitor/

 

58 minutes ago, Flaminia said:

When I play a lot of fast tones with a VST, there are a lot of unwanted semi-tones, resulting in a cacaphony of tones and the laptop finally plays randomly tones and makes a song by its own! Haha!)

 

That could be a whole bunch of things - garbled MIDI messages, latency, playing technique or something else entirely.

 

Without seeing, or being able to access your setup it is rather difficult to guess what is happening.

 

For example: I have my Helix set up to record audio from the guitars (both Variax and regular) fully processed in stereo along with a mono dry unaffected guitar signal onto another track. My Arturia KeyLab61 controls all the soft synths in Logic via MIDI. Note originally I had the Controller Keyboard patched into the MIDI ports on the Helix which is set as the audio in/out device in Logic and it all just worked. Things have change a little now - I have the Keyboard USB MIDI into an XTouch control surface. The keyboard still plays the synths, drums etc., and the XTouch controls everything else in the DAW - faders, transport, automation. Once more it just works - Logic recognises the XTouch as a Mackie Control system, Helix supplies the audio and it works like a dream. I'm not sure how you have yours working, but something is not correct.

 

You need to do a little more investigating to track down the glitches at your end. Check how your Cubase is set up.

 

Het lijkt erop dat de jouwe meer een nachtmerrie is dan een droom.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

[Flaminia]

Godverdomme: Haha!

 

Yeah, I've been working with midi since the Atari too (though it was a long time ago I used midi-cables; they were all hooked up and never touched them again) ;-)

I sometimes use Logic too, but rather use Cubase since the Atari's; so much easier (for me) connect them with smpte code and 8/16 track tape-recorders, so I can read and write with that DAW......

Recently I also installed Midi Guitar2 from jam origin: another confusing thingy and I missed the easyness of the Maxon Haha!

Guess I must give myself more time to sort things out, but not today ;-)

 though your midi-monitor app could come in handy; I'll definitively check that out!

 

Indeed I think the settings in Cubase must be adapted too, just like my Mac cheesegrater with Mackie controls, controlling my Tascam digital mixer, just like your XTouch!

(though the Axon has only midi out/in/trough, no USB)

 

The longer it takes to sort these things out, the happier I am when things have solved and I almost never give up in these cases ;-)

To be continued.....

 

Thanks again dataC!

[datacommando]

11 hours ago, Flaminia said:

Recently I also installed Midi Guitar2 from jam origin: another confusing thingy and I missed the easyness of the Maxon Haha!

 

Potverdikkie - I have never had the Jam Origin MIDI Guitar work correctly, and I also have an old Roland GR-33 gathering dust in the corner of the studio. I gave up on all of that, but many others seem to have everything play nice together. Maybe if I had something like a Godin I may try again.

 

11 hours ago, Flaminia said:

Guess I must give myself more time to sort things out, but not today ;-)

 

As I stated previously - this can be a steep learning curve, and it is possibly better to get each item working correctly with Helix and the DAW.

As you might say - "lets onder de knie hebben"

 

I wait to hear of your ultimate success.

 

[Flaminia]

I think I finally found the culprit: since the Helix is only audible when using the jack/xlr out, I connected the Helix to my DM mixer in my studio just with xlr out to a stereo channel, but since the DM has also several digital connections (firewire/usb/midi) they probably will interfere with each other, but I'll have to check that when I 've made a setup loose from my mixer.....

In that case I can check my midi-guitar2 app as wel again, since it had about  the same artefacts like decribed earlier.

On the forum of midi guitar2 some very helpfull guys sent me a picture and a .hlx file to start from (but it didn't help me then, for obvious reasons above) 

Here they are: (change the .pdf attachement to .hlx, so it can be transferred here on this site: it could be helpfull to others too ;-)

 

EverySynth C24.pdf

[Flaminia]

Unfortunately it didn't solve the problem :-(

When I use my "live-set" (MBP) and even touch the 13-pin cable (from guitar to Axon) there's this cacaphony of midi-sounds/signals!

There, the midi-monitor app shows me that these are a lot of midi note on/off from the Helix: more reading is needed I guess......

When I use the "same" (probably not) setup in my studio (Ma Pro), all works flawlesly.......

 

[datacommando]

2 hours ago, Flaminia said:

Unfortunately it didn't solve the problem :-(

 

Mmm... Your original post said "confused..." Now I'm confused. I don't understand why you had to change the extension on the file name for the preset file attachment to .pdf, it is normal to just upload the .hlx file (see attached).

 

I don't understand what you are try to achieve with this preset, because the path for the guitar input seems to work with the compressor and 3 different overdrives into the Mandarin amp amp, vintage delay and plate reverb.  Also, for instance, if I send a backing track from my DAW (Logic) on USB 3&4 it playbacks through the 2 EQs the deluxe comp, rotary drum, delay and reverb. The things that I don't know are the functions of the Send and Returns, and that's the confusion. On the guitar in, the first thing before the volume pedal is a Send block - It never comes back into the signal chain as far has I can tell. Later in the guitar path is a mono FX Loop, which when I check it out, cuts off the guitar signal because I have nothing in the loop. The same thing happens with the signal from the USB inputs, when it hits the FX Loop before the Leslie - the signal ends there for me. Obviously you have some external processing going on with the FX Loops, I just don't know what that is. All the 8 Snapshots set to function as I would expect on the guitar path, but again when a Snapshot switches the FX loop I lose the audio.

 

The join which you highlighted on the screenshot is simply a mixer merge point for the USB and Guitar paths. There is also a Looper block at the end of the audio path, but it doesn't seem to have been assigned to any of the Snapshot or Stomp switches. If you are not using it - delete it. Then you have a couple of MIDI patch changes that are set as instant commands from the Snapshots that seem to be normal, so why you are experiencing a "cacophony of midi-sounds/signals", I'm not sure. If that was coming from Jam Origin I would think it was normal because the tracking could be bad, but from your AX 100 it should be fine.

 

The original post also mentioned Helix as a DAW controller, but at the moment I can't see how that ties into the preset.

 

You must investigate further and it might be helpful to show a diagram of how you have the hardware hooked up.

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

EDIT: I have my studio monitors on the XLR output from the Helix, as you mentioned, but you can select what you require from the Global Settings In/Out

 

EverySynth C24.hlx

Edited April 25, 2021 by datacommando
Monitors Out

[Flaminia]

Sorry my post wasn’t clear enough: the .pdf/hlx file was from the midi guitar 2 forum (there it’s not possible to send .hlx files, over here I obviously didn’t need to do the .pdf conversion)

And yes you’re right: it all makes it more confusing.... 

But for me it made all a bit more clearer (when using midi guitar 2, together with helix 

one day I’ll know how to choose the best way...... ;-)

[Flaminia]

And...... you told me you have the MG2 as well and never got it to use well, so here’s your chance ;-)

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, Flaminia said:

And...... you told me you have the MG2 as well and never got it to use well, so here’s your chance ;-)

LOL. I could never get it to track properly, not like the Roland. With the MG2 all the MIDI is derived from the single audio source and the software has to decipher that into individual notes. With your Axon and my old GR-33 the pickup is detecting the notes from each string.

This video may be of interest to you. Enjoy!

 

 

[Flaminia]

Haha! Never knew Catweazle plays guitar! ;-)

[Flaminia]

Finally! I found it!!!

I had these note on/off thing going on all the time, so it was randomly triggering midi-notes and thus unplayable.

Even when I unplugged all USB and MIDI cables this was happening (sound out via Maxon)

 

So I figured out that it must be the 13 pin cable going from the Graph Tech Ghost midi guitar to the Axon AX100

(though when pluggin in the USB to the Mac Pro the artefacts were gone and when pluggin into the Mac Book Pro there it is again) (!) (a mystery!)

I've been using that cable for decades I guess and without problems......

 

What I did: I reversed the cable and the artefacts were gone! (the end which was in the Axon, I put in the guitar and what was in the guitar, I plugged in the Axon)

The cable made something like a midi-loup I guess, so many weird things were going on......

Chris happy!

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, Flaminia said:

Finally! I found it!!!

Nu komt de aap uit de mouw! Yay!

 

1 hour ago, Flaminia said:

I've been using that cable for decades I guess and without problems......

 Ah! There is the clue - “decades” - cables can, and do sometimes fail.

Also, I’m very happy that you have managed to fix the problem, that is good to know.
 

Now maybe you can have some fun with the new toy and your MIDI system.

 

Enjoy!

[Flaminia]

Tnx for your support DataC!

 

It remains a strange thing that 13 pin cable: it was my last option to solve this; the cable is still ok and was ok: normally I don't reverse cables when they are faulty and don't know why I did it now, it was a gut-feeling I guess

 

Ok, back to edits and record some new wonderfull tracks ;-)

Check out www.beesandus.bandcamp.com 

 

Tnx again!

Chris.

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, Flaminia said:

Check out www.beesandus.bandcamp.com 

 

 

Hi,

 

Some very interesting sounds going on in there.

 

I think I may have detected a little snippet of "Set the controls for the Heart of the Sun" in the "Chewing a Brick" track.

 

It all rather put me in mind of some albums by Fila Brasillia, Baby Mammoth and Bullitnuts (Google - Pork Recordings).

 

Also, early William Orbit Strange Cargo recordings or even the band Elephant Talk (Head).

 

It's certainly a long way from Golden Earring, Focus, Alquin and Kayak - although, you maybe too young to remember those guys.

 

Ik wens je het allerbeste voor de toekomstige projecten.

 

[Flaminia]

Tnx!

 

Yes, you're right ;-) there are more little samples on our other albums of (to some people) recognizable sounds....

 

I'm always wondering what kind of music we make and the names you called  I've never heard from, so I'm definitively going to check them out! tnx

 

Yes, I know all those bands and saw those bands live back in the days, nowadays I play with people who played with them! ;-)

So I'm not too young for that, au contraire; I start to think about reincarnation already ;-)

 

Cheers mate!

 

En dankjewel voor t meedenken!