LT FS behavior like 4 Series and M13/9?

[z3albw1rr]

I assume it can't do this (LT) but on the 4 series you could have an effect on FS1, and turn it on or off, but if an effect was engaged on FS1 you could also press say FS3 and it would not only turn FS3 on but bypass the effect on FS1.

 

The M series did this for columns.

 

I can't see any way for the LT to do this.

 

It would be a great feature.

 

Another great feature would be a Loop Pedal - not a "looper" but a Loop Pedal - an A/B - so you could use one FS to turn on and off a loop, and another FS to toggle between or bypass effects in that loop.

 

Basically like how the external FX loop works, but internally!

 

 

 

 

[HonestOpinion]

4 hours ago, z3albw1rr said:

I assume it can't do this (LT) but on the 4 series you could have an effect on FS1, and turn it on or off, but if an effect was engaged on FS1 you could also press say FS3 and it would not only turn FS3 on but bypass the effect on FS1.

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

It's already in there. This is exactly what snapshots does and a whole lot more. You can also use one row of footswitches for snapshots and another for stomp assignments for very powerful control combinations. If that doesn't get you there you can use the Command Center to assign your footswitches in custom configurations. Read up on snapshots and the Command Center in the manual or watch any of the multitude of videos.

 

4 hours ago, z3albw1rr said:

...

 

Another great feature would be a Loop Pedal - not a "looper" but a Loop Pedal - an A/B - so you could use one FS to turn on and off a loop, and another FS to toggle between or bypass effects in that loop.

 

Basically like how the external FX loop works, but internally!

 

 

 

 

 

The place to submit new ideas for features or improvements is here  https://line6.ideascale.com/ .   That is how you get them in front of Line6 staff and with or without enough votes they may just get implemented.

 

[z3albw1rr]

On 5/9/2021 at 1:02 AM, HonestOpinion said:

 

It's already in there. This is exactly what snapshots does and a whole lot more.

 

 

I understand this but this is actually not what I'm talking about.

 

Let's say you have 2 drives and 2 mods.

 

And you want EVERY combination.

 

1. Bypass

2. Drive 1

3. Drive 2

4. Mod 1

5. Mod 2

6. Drive 1 + Mod 1

7. Drive 2 + Mod 1

8. Drive 1 + Mod 2

9. Drive 2 + Mod 2.

 

That is NINE things without even stacking the two drives or the two mods (like combinations of 3 on, or all 4 on).

 

That's 4 Footswitches (i.e. 4 pedals) to be able to get to 9 combinations in a traditional pedalboard (and if you did count the 3 and 4 pedal possibilities, you could STILL get to them with only 4 FSs).

 

Now, yes, it's not a single button push.

 

To go from Drive 1 + Mod 1 to Drive 2 and Mod 2 you'd have to make 4 pushes.

 

With an M13 (or any of the M series) you'd only have to do TWO. Because when you step on Mod 2, Mod 1 would turn off. And when you step on Drive 2, Drive 1 would turn off.

 

so with an M13, I can put 4 effects up, and toggle between  9 states with only 4 switches and 2 presses.

 

To do the same thing in Pedalboard mode on any of the Helix products it will take 4 button presses.

 

If you use Snapshots, it's going to take NINE switches to get to all the possibilities.

 

And again, that doesn't even include any "stacking" possibilities.

 

And just to be clear, that's with only 4 effects. If you add one more effect that you want to put in every combination, the number of combinations basically goes up exponentially.

 

Now, the M13 limits you to two possible stacking options with those 4 effects (if you want to use this exclusive switching behavior in this way).

 

The Helix line doesn't, but at the same time, you're limited to 4 or 8 snapshots - however many the device has AND they all use up a footswitch.

 

To drive this home, if you have a 4 Snapshot device, you can only get to 4 pre-set combinations using up 4 footswitches. Not very handy on a device that only has 3, 4, or 5, or really 6 switches to begin with. Especially if you can't set up Footswitches to be anything you want and are limited to 4+4 or 2+4 modes (bank select and snapshot select, etc.).

 

Furthermore, when you return to a Snapshot, it's either going to be in its original state or the one you left it from - which may not be the one you need at the time. If I need to go from Drive 1 and Mod 1 to Drive 2 and Mod 2, but then on to Drive 1 only, if I go back to Snapshot 1 that means it could still be in the D1+M1 state - which again means engaging SS1, and going into pedalboard mode to turn off the Mod. So the ONLY way around this without having them ordered in a set list is to have a single footswitch for each combination you want - which is 5 more footswitches. The only thing you're gaining is a single button press instead of 4, or, with an M13, TWO.

 

So being able to move from Drive 1 with Chorus to Drive 2 with Flange with a single button push sounds great on paper. And it may be great in practice for people who are fortunate enough to be able to order Snapshots in the form of a setlist.

 

Line 6 products might work for me IF I played with a single band who does mostly the same material each night. But I don't. I play in 4-5 bands and we do different length shows and specialty shows, and many of the things we do are segues where they want no break between songs.

 

So my best bet is to have a pedalboard with as many pedals on it as I need, and manually turn effects on and off, even if it means pressing 3 or 4 buttons in a row.

 

But at least, with the M13, this footswitch behavior allows me to save a few presses and conserve footswitches. And it STILL can do preset mode if I need it.

 

So the Helixes need Footswitches that can be anything - Preset, Snapshot, Toggle, On/Bypass - AND, stepping on 1 turns another, or any other number of effects off. While that "is" a Snapshot, if you could do it like I'm talking about  (and the way the M and 4 series did it) you can have a lot more combinations that utilize fewer footswitches - the trade off is more combinations, but with a few more button pushes. Some of the combinations above can still be as little as 1 or 2 pushes - Drive 1 + Mod 1 to Drive Bypassed + Mod 1 - 1 press. Drive 1 + Mod 1 to Drive 1 + Mod 2 - still just 1 press.

 

As far as Ideascale is concerned, don't fool yourself. It's a company. They're out to make a profit. They're "mining" ideas. They're only going to implement something that they know is easy to implement that will guarantee them more sales. It's all about return on investment. It's more a psychological ploy to let users think they have some say in what gets done - they could have planned to do many of these things anyway in fact, so it can make those who voted for it think they got their way. This builds a more loyal fanbase. Very smart, but that doesn't mean good ideas will be implemented.

 

Simply put, they've abandoned the M series approach and I doubt they'll have any incentive to bring it back - especially given so few people understand it and what the products do is enough for what they need them to do.

 

[phil_m]

53 minutes ago, z3albw1rr said:

 

Line 6 products might work for me IF I played with a single band who does mostly the same material each night. But I don't. I play in 4-5 bands and we do different length shows and specialty shows, and many of the things we do are segues where they want no break between songs.

I think you just need to be a little more open-minded about things. I’ve used the Helix and other HX products since 2015 in a bunch of different band contexts, and none of them fit this description. A lot of the bands I play with are more jam and improvisation oriented, so I need flexibility. I used the M13 from 2008 until 2015, when I got the Helix, and I have never missed it. To me, the Helix is much easier to navigate and change things on the fly than the M13, at least in the complexity that you have available to you.