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Have TWO HX Effects so looking for something that can power both, and still have some juice left over for 6 pedals - like Mooer Black Secret size (all drives, not power hungry). Would like to get away from the wall warts. However, they can fit under the pedalboard, so any ingenious solutions to getting them plugged in (I have the shorter ones that are parallel to a power strip if the slots are parallel as well)

Yeah I saw that in the video and I'm like - what?

They've never been very good. I was messing with them last night again in fact. I was trying them before some drives rather than after and honestly... I kind of like them better that way. But they're still very much "not like what I hear on records". Since the rotaries tend to sound like a chorus emulating a rotating speaker, you're almost just as well off to use a chorus to emulate it! I find the chorus doesn't alter the overall tone so much. Have you tried the Legacy ones? IIRC they have a mix control where the stereo ones don't - or there's a balance between the horn and speaker, or some additional parameters that can help you dial in the sound a little more.

Yeah, I'm not a Color sound buff but the L6 Drive might be the best pedal in the collection - the Mid Control makes it go from Fuzz to Metal with the Drive high. I also recall using that with the Bass and Treble set real low to get more mids for a Boston type sound. I don't get the Colordrive - it doesn't have very much drive at all on tap. I can see that. I heard "Strange Brew" today as a matter of fdact and I once asked if people liked that and the responses were divided. I consider a lot of classic tones to be thin and scratchy or bright and brittle and don't like them. Do you remember which video that is? I'm sure I can find it. I know that Captain doesn't like Tube Screamers because "the dry signal leaks through" but I like that, and so does Pete. But I think that's a separate issue from "fizzy"! FWIW, I tore apart my rig after a really depressing gig last weekend where my tone was just horrible. I've going to not use the drives and just use my own external drives in the FX loops where they sound way better than anything in HX Effects. I'm just going to use the HX Effects for Wah, using the snapshots to turn on those FX loops 1 at a time or stacked or neither, and then a couple of effects like some Octave/Harmony type things I like having on that first unit (I try to keep all the mods and delays/verbs on the 2nd unit). I still kind of really like the Stupor OD, but like all of the built in drives, it's got this upper midrange honk that's annoying and I'm tired of trying to dial it out with EQ right now. My plan is to use my external drives for now, and then try to gradually dial in something inbuilt to match as a backup. I think I can get an internal Fuzz to work fine for me though. Also one of their drives into one of my drives is not so bad and helps them out a lot.

At a point where I want to use both expression pedal jacks and both pairs of sends and returns and there's not a lot of room there. I've got some Miracle Sound right angles and they both fit in the expression jacks, but, the middle jack of the 6 on the bottom row is close enough to the one on either side that the cable in the top jack in the middle can't go between them on either side. The rest of them are "outside" of the other cables and can be angled a bit. I just totally realized it's actually the same problem dfor the L/Mono input I plug my guitar into. I just tried the Miracle Sound ones again and I was able to "squish" them in where it squeezes the little rubber ribbed "flex/grippy thing" right at the molded plastic connector: I've got some classic pancake style and they're just too big - they overlap vertically (and just barely fit horizontally. George L's would work but I am not a millionaire. I suppose worst case, I might be able to use only 1 or 2 George L's in the top row and the rest be like the more typical molded plastic ones. But something that size, where the cable coming out of the connector is already the smaller diameter to fit between one pair of the lower jacks is necessary. George L does make a 1' one for 18 bucks so worst case, there you go. But I'm hoping to find something the line of some less expensive cables (and making my own is not a happening thing unless those new Ghost Fire DIY kits work well). I'm not seeing anything at the usual haunts that's not a pancake or the ribbed rubber housing (though if I could find one of those that was narrower...). Though a secondary thought is that's more just a grip/flex thing, so I could in theory whittle it down a bit...

@soerenP - reading through your responses - I would say the Colordrive from the legacy collection was a pretty bad sounding model. So, a couple of things - I play through a real Twin Reverb. I once read an article where they were trying out pedals and they did it through a number of amps and they said "an unforgiving twin" - and it's true - they are unforgiving. As I mentioned before, by "stacking drives" the sparse crackles of one overdrive can "fill in" the crackles of another, making for a smoother drive. This is true of overdriven amps as well - you either add drive in front to "fill in crackles" or you add volume at front to make the amp drive more to produce it's own crackles! Many Pedals were not designed to create drive before a clean amp - in fact most aren't. There's a great That Pedal Show demonstrating this with a Plexi-ish amp, an AC-30, and a clean Fender. The same pedal can sound drastically different. They even demonstrate using one on the Fender clean, and then with it breaking up a bit, and again it's a big difference. To me, many drive models in the Helices sound like butt into a clean amp. Most real world ones do to. Because that's not what they were designed to do. That Pedal Show also talks about a DS-1 and the same kinds of ideas - it was an eye-opening video for me. "So that's why I never liked DS1s and similar" - I was playing them into clean amps and they designed those at a time when people were going into breaking up amps. And man, I think it sounds great goosing another overdrive - sucks on its own, but is great pushing another. Tube Screamer type pedals and Rat Pedals worked great for me in real live an in my DM4 and M13. The 808 in the HX is pretty good, but thank god the legacy one is there with bass and treble controls as well. The Rats all suck now into a clean amp though... The Kinky Boost also sounds great to me - because it "fixes" some of the coloration inherent in the HX and all the drives. But I'd say MOST of the overdrives have "issues" that alone, into an unforgiving Twin, are going to be noticeable. But when they are used either as intended, or how they more commonly got used - mixed in with additional drive, you get a level of saturation that doesn't have these artifacts. It's true - a real Plexi doesn't really have that much drive, and is "crackly" on it's own. I'd argue the "fall off" issue is a modelling issue - not present on all models but on many. But the "crackle" is present in many real-world overdrives when not running them into an already breaking up amp, or amp with certain speakers and frequency characteristics etc. (the mid-range scoop of a Fender can make drives sound "nasty" and adding mids back can help - which is why mid-heavy drives like Tube Screamers tend to sound better with them). But it's not a failing of the unit. It's maybe a failing of the design choices, but many of those artifacts are just things people never notice because they're always running the things into other things that cover them up! When you don't do that, you suffer the consequences :-)

Yeah, you'd think right? But you'd be wrong ;-) So what's most likely happening is this: Analog through is using the cable length from your guitar to HX, AND the length from HX to your amp. Digital through (or just not bypassed even with no blocks, or all blocks bypassed) is "negating" the cable length from the HX to your amp. So the capacitance is HALF what it is in analog bypass (assuming you're using say, 2 20' cables for example). This is because it is a buffer when not analog bypassed. Now what this means for you is, it sounds brighter than when analog bypassed. Most people will tell you though it's not brighter, it's that in analog bypass it's duller! It's merely "replacing the highs you're losing by using a longer cable run". That's what they'll tell you. It's true - 40' of cable has more capacitance, and thus more high-end loss than 20' of cable. So if you plug your guitar straight into your amp with 20' of cable, you should get the same sound from a 20' cable into HX, and then whatever after the HX, since the buffer essentially "negates" anything after it. They should both have the same amount of high end (or so they'll tell you) and when you compare it to the analog bypass, it's not a "fair" comparison because you're comparing 20' of cable to 40' of cable. The HX makes it sound like 20' - which is what you want, right - well, not always. I have this same problem. What I hear out of my HX Effects is NOT "regained highs" but "a messed up frequency mess". There's a pretty significant increase in both high and low mids in addition to the highs that robs the character of my guitar's pickups. Now the HX Effects only has a fixed input impedance (brilliant - the one device that SHOULD have variable impedance doesn't...) but since you're having this same issue, it's probably more than that. But like another poster said, you really shouldn't use the global EQ for that. I get why you might want to - it's easy to "fix the tonal mess of the unit", but it's really more designed for when you get to a gig and because you set up your sounds at home, they all have too much bass or something, so the idea is that you could quickly dial it out with the global EQ. That said, if all you're doing is dialling out some high end, that's easy enough to change if you get somewhere and find you need more or less anyway. Instead, it might be better to just put an EQ in the Preset, and then save it as a Favorite, and then copy it into other presets. It does kind of suck because if you end up changing it, you'll have to go back and do all of them - which could be a nightmare if you have tons of presets. But personally I've found that I need more than what the global EQ does. There needs to be some high cut, there needs to be some cut around 2200, and some around 250 - to start. At least that's what I'm finding I have to do to get it to sound like my bypassed tone. I don't mind it a little brighter, but my god, it changes my tone pretty drastically in an harsh, and unpleasant way. Yep. Definite coloration. Really, all the drives have this harsh mid-range honk that my real drives don't have - even when going through the unit and thus the unit's buffer (since drive pedals when on are buffered signals themselves). I've got my real drives in a loop right now comparing them to the onboard drives and have been fighting to get them to sound "as good". I know they aren't going to be identical (I only have clones, not any exact models in the HX) but the "honky" character of all the drives and even the bypassed tone is annoying. Just cutting the highs is not enough to help me.

PC messages aren't set up to do momentary/latching on the footswitch (another fine mess they've gotten us into). So you can't use Command Center to program two PC messages to the same footswitch either as Instant commands or footswitch commands. I think there might be a workaround though: When you recall a Snapshot, PC messages that are saved with it are sent. This teensy note on page 41: Since there's also a Snapshot Toggle setting for Snapshot Recall, what you should be able to do is make Snapshot 1 send PC 56, and Snapshot 2 send PC 58, and then toggle between these two snapshots - which don't even have to have anything else in them. So as each is recalled, it'll send the PC value (there may be some additional settings you have to make in the Snapshot itself). Of course that burns up two of your snapshots so that may not be ideal either. But that's the only way I can think of you could do it. Not sure if you know this, but in Command Center you can go in and set up Snapshots to be on your footswitches in Stomp mode. So what you could do is put Snapshot 1 and 2 to toggle on FS 1, then Snapshot 3 on FS2, and Snapshot 4 on FS 3, and then FS4,5,6 can just be stomps (or whatever FS layout you want). You have 3 Snapshots and 3 stomps that way, and one of your SS is really 2 that toggle to let you change the channel on your amp. Hope that helps.

@soerenP I've been messing with digital stuff since Line 6 first came out - the Axsys 212 - the first Green Delay pedal - the DL4, etc. I'm going to give you my experience: 1. There is no way to get rid of the "crackle apart" decay characteristics on any drive like this that has them (your only solutions are to not use that model, "cover it up" in some way - more on that below - or sell the unit). They are "built into" the sound if you will. Some pedal models are worse than others. Way back in those old days, Fender entered the market with their first Modelling amp, and it was one of the first things I noticed about their drive sounds - they "crackled apart". Unlike a real amp or even drive pedal that smoothly moves from clipping to not clipping, many digital effects (not just L6 ones) can't seem to decide if the signal should still be clipping as it crosses the threshold from clipping to not clipping - meaning individual clipped peaks seem to be present in some random fashion, making what I'm calling a "crackling" sound that's not overdrive or clipping. It's more like the bad kind of clipping that happens in the digital realm when you go over 0 dbfs. 2. Some drives also have a noticeable "breath" on them - for lack of a better term. It sounds like someone exhaling into your ear as it plays. It's a high his that doesn't seem to be part of the tone or the clipping, and is just "there". Back when I had the old DM4, this was very noticeable on the "Overdrive" model. 3. These and other artifacts are "baked into" the sound. 4. As for Brittle during the sound not in the fall off, again I find that certain models are just that way and there's nothing you can do about it. 5. As for Fizzy, there are some things that can help, and those things can help to "cover up" these other artifacts. A. Just try putting a Kinky Boost after your drives. I know you're eating up DSP, but try it and see if you like the sound better. Do it with NO boost, NO drive, and the Bright switch OFF. The Kinky Boost in this setting rolls off a lot of high end and adds some low mid warmth that seems to tame a lot of the Fizz. Just do it and see if you like the tone, because that tells you that what may help you is EQ'ing in a way that removes high end like the KB does. B. Try stacking two drives, or running a drive into a driven amp. The Colordrive model on the legacy devices was one I REALLY liked the tone of, but the drive aspect of it was "brittle" - which wasn't an EQ issue - it's just the way the drive presents itself. So the problem with a lot of "crackle" is the clipping is too far apart in time and more random. If you max out a drive control and it's still "crackly" what you need is to "fill in the gaps" with other crackles - another pedal with some drive on it. Again you may be sucking up DSP but you might just try stacking two lower drive pedals rather than trying to get the amount of drive you want out of one. The crackles of one far-too-crackly drive will "fill in" the crackles of the other far-too-crackly overdrive to make a smoother drive tone overall. This can also help with the fall off as there will be 50% more crackles as it drops off making for a smoother transition again. Though obviously you kind of need to start with as smooth sounding pedals as you can. C. I'm fighting with my TWO HX Effects right now. They DRASTICALLY change my tone because of the buffer, and the drives just don't sound good. They all have an upper mid-range "honk" that one of my bandmates said "ooh that's cool, sounds like a cocked wah pedal" - but it wasn't supposed to. It was a model that I used in the M13 - one of the Legacy models. That they changed. The Legacy models in the Helix sound NOTHING like the actual models in the M13 (or DM4, which sounded the same as the M series). I had a Pod XT Live and it sounded crappy, like the Helix. I don't know what the problem is, but the Legacy drives are the "same" in name only. I put real pedals up against it, and the Helix just has this weird upper midrange honk and lack of warmth. I've been spending a LOT of time trying to EQ it to get it "right" but at this point I'm really considering just selling them both. I said before I'd never give them another dollar because of the failed footswitches I've had on MANY of their devices, but I just couldn't find anything that would do what they do for the same price. But I guess, even at those prices, you get what you pay for. D. That said, it works for many. There's a lot of people who just don't worry about stuff, for whatever reason, and they're happy. But sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but unless you can make yourself happy with it, or through some of the possible solutions I've given, you'll never be happy with it, and the things you describe are just things that can't be changed - only covered, sold, or accepted. Good luck.

Just wanted you to know, when I listened to your clip, I pressed play without reading it. And I want you to know I know exactly what you're talking about. I heard the first one and I was like, "i don't hear it" and then the 2nd example and I was like "oh yeah, there it is". It wasn't until after that I realized the order - and the Helix was the 2nd one. Yep. It sounded like it. FWIW, this is a common problem in a lot of digital distortion models, not just Line 6. The "fall apart" of the clipping is not smooth as it is in real drive pedals. In fact, I learned this decades ago with the early Fender attempts at modelling - and it was what I actually used to determine if drives were any good or not (all other things being equal). I'd check out the "fall apart" at the end of a moderate drive signal, and if it "cracked apart" then I new it wasn't for me. In the past, Line 6 had enough models to choose from that I could eliminate 90% of them for all the issues they had, and find at least 3 of them that would work.

OK, yes, sure in that way absolutely. Well, that is the question. How do I solve that though? They are. I tried them the other ways just to be sure, but yes, the problem persists even when they're all set to Instrument. I was just trying it because there's a problem with running them in series as well. There is the advantage of being able to change presets, and so on with the 2nd unit in a disengaged loop, and then bringing it back online. But honestly it's not that big a deal and series works just as well (aside from that issue) because of the Snapshots - and I have two independent sets of 4 which is why I wanted to go the 3 HX Effects route. I'm mainly wondering now if the tonal change is due to the additional conversion, and if it's only slightly less when the units are in series, but still causing my issue with that tonal change. I do have an acceptable solution, but was just hoping the loop might solve it - which it actually does on 50%, but that of course causes the other problem.

It's the single FX Loop block - when set to 50%. That produces half the signal in the A unit going through it, then the other half of that going through the 2nd unit - and any effect that passes dry signal (or the effect itself not set to 100% wet) and I'm sure that's the signal that's causing the phasing. At 100% on the FX loop block it doesn't do it, but there is a tonal change as you engage and disengage the loop. So here's the problem: To avoid the phasing issue, I have to set the FX loop block to 100%. It's just series running through the loop then. But the loop makes a tonal change when being engaged and disengaged. To solve that, I can run it at 50%. But then you get the phasing on any effect not 100% wet (which doesn't work with many effects - unless you want a clean blend on a drive!) _______ I get why there's a phase issue with the loop at 50% - you've got dry signal going through both and one's latency is enough to delay the signals relative to each other. But I don't get why there's a tonal change when I put it at 100% and it's serial. Even with no blocks in the path, turning the loop on and off causes a change in volume/tone or a frequency shift that makes some frequencies louder or quieter that equates to a volume difference that can't be corrected with the send/return volumes. But I suspect it's the same reason there's a tonal shift when I just run the two units in series.

No parallel path - it's when it's set to 50% that the phasing issue is caused.

Thanks - I thought I remembered seeing a polarity switch somewhere. I was wondering if putting the loop in the B path and just switching the B path on and off might be a solution. Inelegant, but a solution nonetheless.

Hmmmm...that does make sense as a potential cause.