Stomp XL with H9 and 4CM hookup

[adagosto]

Can anyone explain how (if it's possible) you would hook up an Eventide H9 into the effects loop of the Stomp XL and the Stomp XL hooked up to an amp using the 4CM. Can this be done?

 

Are there other ways of doing this? My amp only has one effects loop.

 

Thx!

[rd2rk]

Using an insert cable (1/4" TRS>dual 1/4" TS), if you want the 4cm before the H9 you use the LEFT SEND (TIP) and LEFT/MONO RETURN for the 4cm, and you use the RIGHT SEND (RING) to the H9 and back into the RIGHT RETURN. Obviously, that requires two S/R Blocks and, really, which comes first in the signal chain (4cm or H9) just depends upon where you put the S/R Blocks, the order as relates to which S/R you use for which device or which device you put in which loop doesn't really matter.

 

 

[adagosto]

47 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

Using an insert cable (1/4" TRS>dual 1/4" TS), if you want the 4cm before the H9 you use the LEFT SEND (TIP) and LEFT/MONO RETURN for the 4cm, and you use the RIGHT SEND (RING) to the H9 and back into the RIGHT RETURN. Obviously, that requires two S/R Blocks and, really, which comes first in the signal chain (4cm or H9) just depends upon where you put the S/R Blocks, the order as relates to which S/R you use for which device or which device you put in which loop doesn't really matter.

 

Oh wow!!

 

Ok ideally what I'd like to do is run two different drive pedals into the Stomp that will then connect to the amp using the 4CM. Plus add an H9 into the effects loop so in this case I'd have some tones that could be routed into the front-of-amp and other tones into the loop.

 

It sounds like this is possible then!!

[rd2rk]

AND....if you put the 4cm Loop and a Helix Amp on the same FS saved one on/one off, the FS will allow you to toggle between the amp's preamp OR the Helix Amp, into the H9, and on to the amp's FX Return. Best of both worlds!

[rd2rk]

Attached preset demonstrates the technique.

 

This is the type of cable:

 

AmazonSmile: Hosa STP-201 1/4" TRS to Dual 1/4" TS Insert Cable, 1 Meter : Electronics

 

or this:

 

AmazonSmile: Hosa YPP-117 1/4" TRS to Dual 1/4" TSF Stereo Breakout Cable : Musical Instruments

 

The second one allows you to use different length cables to accomodate device placement in your rig.

 

The TS portions of the cable are labeled TIP/RING.

 

Tip (FX Loop L) is the 4cm. Tip to Amp Input, Amp FX SEND to RETURN Left.

Ring (FX Loop R) is MONO to the H9 MONO Input (can't do stereo if using 4cm and separate loop for H9) , H9 MONO SEND to RIGHT Return.

 

FS1 is the Chorus Bypass. Chorus is just there for demo purposes.

FS2 toggles the AMP preamp/Helix Amp.

FS3 toggles the H9 FX Loop (R) on/off.

 

adagosto.hlx

[adagosto]

Ok this is super helpful. Thank you so much. I really didn't think it was doable and I've been considering the Helix LT to make it easier, but I really want to use my pedals and pedals PLUS and LT is A LOT of floor realestate!!!! The Stomp XL fits nice....

 

Thank you.

[rd2rk]

If you want to use stereo FX in the loops the LT won't help, as it only has two loops like the HXS. In that case you'd need the Helix Floor/Rack which have 4 FX Loops which can be combined for stereo.

 

Keep in mind that the more FX Loops you use, the more latency - <>2ms per loop (stereo or mono) - you incur. That's not a lot in the scenario I described, but just FYI.

[adagosto]

Hey rd2rk,

I just ordered a Stomp XL, but I chickened out on getting the H9 (for now). Instead, it would be cool to just run a few of my other pedals that I like into the loop, just as the H9 would. I have a Medusa chorus/tremolo, a delay pedal and a EQ pedal. 

 

Would it work the exact same way you described?

 

If I understand correctly, the second link you provided makes the most sense for me. The male end plugs into the Stomp and one of the famale plug creates the pedal loop and the other female connects to my Amp effects loop. I would need two of these adapters (one for the send and one for the receive). Do I have that right?

 

[rd2rk]

1 minute ago, adagosto said:

Would it work the exact same way you described?

 

Yes.

 

1 minute ago, adagosto said:

I would need two of these adapters (one for the send and one for the receive). Do I have that right?

 

No.

 

The FX Send from the amp is mono (TS Cable). It goes in Return L if the TIP portion of the adapter goes to the Amp Input.

The return from the FX is mono (TS Cable). it goes into Return R if the RING portion of the adapter goes to the Input of the first effect.

If you toggle the Loop it cuts out ALL effects in the loop.

 

You only need the adapter to split the Loops coming OUT of the HXS Send.

[adagosto]

I'm still a bit lost....I've been reading posts all over the place and it's still confusing. 

 

Rd2rk is a separate post answered essentially the same question. The OP wrote that he wanted an OD pedal in front of the amp and a delay and reverb pedal in the amp effects loop. With that, rd2rk wrote this....

 

Guitar>OD Pedal>HXStomp L/Mono In>HXS FX>HXS Amp (no cab)>HXS FX Loop L Block>HX FX Send L (TIP)>Outboard FX>Laney Amp Input>Laney FX Send >

Outboard FX>HXS L/Mono Return>HXS FX>HXS FX Loop R Block>HX FX Loop R (RING)>Outboard FX>HXS Right Return>HXS 1/4" L/Mono Out>Outboard FX>Laney FX Return.

 

 Is this still correct and if so, can you ease add punctuation. LOL...I can't follow it.

 

Starting with my guitar I will connect my cable into a Revival Drive OD pedal, then into a TV Spark Booster then from there into the HXStomp XL. So Guitar>Revival>Boost>HXStomp L Mono In.

 

Now what?

 

I need to add my Medusa Chorus pedal and my Delay pedal to the loop. I understand I will need an Insert cable. But I don't understand how to do this. If possible, can you describe this I. More detail? I will then draw it up and post the diagram and then you can reference the diagram because I see you answer this question a lot!

 

[adagosto]

Hold on...let's reset. Is this correct?

 

In order to utilize the 4CM PLUS additional pedals placed in front of AND in the amps effects loop, you will need 5 cables and a Stereo-to-dual-mono Insert cable. Also, it requires that you make adjustments in the Stomp signal chain to move all effects loop pedal effects (Modulation, Delay, Reverb, Synth) be panned full RIGHT and everything else is panned full LEFT (as set up below).

 

1. Cable #1: Guitar connects to your Overdrive pedals (anything you want in front of the amp). The last pedal then connects into the HX Stomp INPUT L/Mono.
2. Cable #2: HX Stomp OUTPUT L/Mono then connects to your Amp instrument input.
3. Stereo Insert Cable: the Stereo side plugs into the HX Stomp SEND Stereo.
4. Cable #3: Stereo Insert Cable TIP connects to the external effects pedals (Modulation, Delay, Reverb, Synth). The last pedal then connects to HX Stomp RETURN  L/Mono.
5. Cable #4: Stereo Insert Cable RING connects to the Amp's Effects Loop Return.
6. Cable #5: HX Stomp RETURN Right connects to the Amp's Effects Loop Send

Is this correct? Please correct this if I'm wrong.

[rd2rk]

[rd2rk]

Your external overdrive pedals and whatever else you want BEFORE the HXS go between the guitar and the HXS, just like a real amp and FX.

The RED section is the TIP cable from the Insert adapter. The BLUE section is the RING cable.

[adagosto]

This is perfectly clear. Thank you so much!!

But, I'm curious....the connections I wrote above in the thread, are they also correct? I'm finding there is more than one way to do it. Is that right?

[rd2rk]

Follow the map.

Stereo Insert Cable RING connects to External FX IN

The last pedal then connects to HX Stomp RETURN RIGHT

 

.

[adagosto]

On 11/12/2021 at 11:29 PM, rd2rk said:

Follow the map.

Stereo Insert Cable RING connects to External FX IN

The last pedal then connects to HX Stomp RETURN RIGHT

 

.

 

Yes this is very clear. Got it. So few things...I've got the Stomp XL on order. It's being shipped. I've got the Insert cable coming as well, so in a week or so I'll set this all up and see. But...here's the question.

 

Using the map above, do you need to create signal chains that split the path so that the sounds that are before the amp are, let's say panned full RIGHT and sounds that are in the loop are panned full LEFT? In other words, how do you tell the Stomp how to coordinate the show of sounds?

 

The cable method I documented above, it from a YouTube video description, but it is accompanied with a software setup process to make it all work.

 

Does the diagram you provided also need a software process to make it all work?

 

Looking forward to tinkering!!

 

 

[rd2rk]

1 hour ago, adagosto said:

Using the map above, do you need to create signal chains that split the path so that the sounds that are before the amp are, let's say panned full RIGHT and sounds that are in the loop are panned full LEFT? In other words, how do you tell the Stomp how to coordinate the show of sounds?

 

The cable method I documented above, it from a YouTube video description, but it is accompanied with a software setup process to make it all work.

 

My SINCERE advice.

 

STOP WATCHING YOUTUBE!

Download the manual. Read the manual. Look at the MANY pictures, one of which is the diagram which I modified to created that map..

 

1 hour ago, adagosto said:

Using the map above, do you need to create signal chains that split the path so that the sounds that are before the amp are, let's say panned full RIGHT and sounds that are in the loop are panned full LEFT? In other words, how do you tell the Stomp how to coordinate the show of sounds?

 

While everything except patch librarian stuff can be done on the device itself, you'll want to download and install HX Editor which as you might have guessed, is a program that allows you to edit your presets on your computer screen and save them to the HX. You can't use it until you actually have the device plugged in, so READ THE MANUAL while you wait.

 

A VERY Short Signal Chain tutorial:

 

Your preset appears on the screen (and on the HX itself) as a series of "Blocks" representing the signal chain, from Left (INPUT BLOCK) to RIGHT (OUTPUT BLOCK). A very common basic arrangement would be:

 

INPUT Block (there by default)>OD>Mod>FX Loop L (signal OUT the LEFT SEND and IN to the L/Mono RETURN)>Reverb>OUTPUT BLOCK (there by default)

 

At any point in that signal chain you can place your FX Loop R Block (signal OUT the RIGHT SEND and IN to the RIGHT RETURN) for your External FX.

 

If you want to use parallel processing for devices such as Reverb and Delay, you place them both in the signal chain, then pull one down to create a parallel chain, moving the SPLIT and MIXER Blocks (automatically created when you split the path) to wherever you want them in the chain.

 

That's a brief summary. Confused? READ THE MANUAL!

I will not, nor will anyone else here, re-type the manual so you can read it here instead of simply downloading it. IF, after reading the manual, you have specific questions about something in the manual, you can refer to it by Page# and we can clarify it for you, as opposed to asking us to watch some stupid YOUTUBE video by some fool who might not know his derriere from a hole in the ground.

 

Sorry if I sound a bit cranky, it's Sunday morning and I haven't had my coffee yet!

 

And PLEASE, STOP WATCHING YOUTUBE!

[adagosto]

On 11/12/2021 at 11:29 PM, rd2rk said:

 

 

Ok so here's something else I'm curious about. Maybe you can explain.

 

With respect to where to place the external overdrive pedals, the manual indicates that they can be placed between the guitar and Helix. But I'm curious about this...

 

Can they equally be placed AFTER the Helix and before the Guitar input? So the cable that comes out of the SEND that goes into the Guitar Input on the amp, can those pedals be placed on that line?

 

The reason I ask is noise. I'm wondering if that an option to deal with noise.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[rd2rk]

1 hour ago, adagosto said:

The reason I ask is noise. I'm wondering if that an option to deal with noise.

 

Keep in mind that:

 

a) those pedals, more than any other type of effect except maybe WAH, are made to go between the guitar and the amp input. IF you had a full-fat Helix with 4 FX loops, a possible advantage of putting them in a third fx loop could be if you prefer your OD/Distortions AFTER your WAH, and want to use a Helix WAH vs adding a real one before Helix.

See below for the drawbacks to that.

 

b) the FX Loop is known to add a small amount of noise. ODs/Distortions in an fx loop will emphasize that noise, NOT attenuate it. Also, my Crybaby 535Q sounded awful in the HXS fx loop. Also, now you've got 3 fx loops/3x the latency/8ms end to end vs 6ms. 10ms is generally considered the threshold for HEARING latency. Some people claim to be able to FEEL 2ms. YMMV.

 

c) keeping the ODs/Distortions between the guitar and Helix allows you to use the Noise Gate on the Input Block to quiet them down without needing to use an extra block for that purpose.

[adagosto]

Ok very good. That's helpful. I love the idea of the noise gate. I find that my pedal seem to fluctuate with noise. Some days are noisier than others. My M9 handles it just fine, but I expect to need a noise gate with the Stomp. It's shipped!! Yippee!

[adagosto]

UPDATE:

Holy lollipop, the Helix sounds good!!!

 

The Stomp arrived and I hooked it all up exactly as depicted and on the first try, no glitches!!!!

 

Now I just have to fiddle around with it for a while. One thing I am noticing is a far bit of noise and when adding a noise gate, it had very little impact. The M9 (in the effects loop) completely killed off noise.

 

When I remove the Insert Cable and my physical pedals that are in the loop, the noise goes away.

 

But back to the Helix..... holy crap, it really sounds good. I find the amp models placed in the power amp sound excellent. Idk...I'll stop rambling about stuff you already know.

 

[ColonelForbin]

Yeah; I had some issues trying to use both loops in my boards; I've got a Stomp XL on a larger board, and a Stomp on a smaller board.

At one point I had some pedals in front of amp isolated in a loop; with other pedals in front of the HX; and the 2nd loop going to and from the amp.

I settled on a less than perfect solution; in that I use one loop in the HX; using a regular TS cable for the HX FX loop send - does NOT need to be a TRS splitter cable if only using one loop. So; basically doing this; this is the layout for the smaller board; the larger is very similar just different pedals.

 

Actually, that's not totally true - on the smaller board I use an Empress Stereo buffer on the back right corner of the board, which takes the amp fx loop send and amp fx loop return cables. Then the HX is wired into the Empress fx loop, and on that board, the HX out goes: Empress fx loop send> SA Nemesis > SA Ventris > Empress fx loop return

 

On the bigger board, the amp send and return cables go to HX fx loop return, and HX main out left /mono.

 

guitar > tuner > wah > comp >

> HX input > HX: poly whammy or octave > HX: envelope > HX: precision drive dirt model > HX: fx loop block send > 

> mini TS > mini red dirt > OCD > carbon copy > to amp input

amp fx loop send > Empress buffer > Empress fx loop 

HX: fx loop block return > HX: la comp > HX: volume pedal > HX:delay > main out L > SA Nemesis > SA Ventris > Empress FX loop return > to amp fx loop return

 

Anyway, the less than ideal part, is with this arrangement I can' do the preamp swap trick; since that would also remove all the pedals on the board after the HX fx loop send before the amp input. I should probably revisit that two fx loop HX set up to figure out if I had done something wrong..

 

Also for what it's worth, EBS makes these flat end insert cables

 

https://ebssweden.com/content2/accessories/patch-cables-connectors/