White Wedding?

[johnnyvlee]

Anyone have a good patch for "White Wedding" by Billy Idol?

[codamedia]

Which guitar part? There are 3 distinct parts through the song...

• Overdriven... big chords
• Clean theme.... with a little reverb
• fuzzy/overdriven bit parts. 

IMO.... All tones can be (and likely were) done with a Plexi.... or a JCM800 with a relatively low gain structure. Add a fuzz for those little choppy bit parts. If you know how to dial in those amps those tones are readily available within. 

 

If you don't understand the Plexi model let us know along with the guitar make/model you plan on playing this part with. I'll can try to throw you a couple of settings to try. 

 

[johnnyvlee]

2 minutes ago, codamedia said:

Which guitar part? There are 3 distinct parts through the song...

• Overdriven... big chords
• Clean theme.... with a little reverb
• fuzzy/overdriven bit parts. 

IMO.... All tones can be (and likely were) done with a Plexi.... or a JCM800 with a relatively low gain structure. Add a fuzz for those little choppy bit parts. If you know how to dial in those amps those tones are readily available within. 

 

If you don't understand the Plexi model let us know along with the guitar make/model you plan on playing this part with. I'll can try to throw you a couple of settings to try. 

 

I need all 3 sounds (I use snapshots). I used to play through some gear that had patches made by Steve Stevens and they all 3 sounded right. One was that 80s chorusey clean sound, one was the overdriven sound and one was a good sound to use for the lead.

 

TBH I always owned Mesa Boogie amps, never Marshalls. Not that familiar with Plexi.

 

I tried starting with someone's "Rebel Yell" patch, but the clean isn't really spot on for this song, and so far I haven't dialed it in.

[codamedia]

30 minutes ago, johnnyvlee said:

I tried starting with someone's "Rebel Yell" patch, but the clean isn't really spot on for this song

 

IMO... Steve Stevens Rebel Yell tones were much more advanced compared to this album with "White Wedding". 

It's back to the very basics for these tones.... not much for effects at all. Even that clean tone has little (to nothing) for effects.... There might be a little chorus, but it would be very, very subtle compared to the Rebel Yell clean tones. 

 

What guitar are you using? That's a critical step in getting you in the ballpark for these tones. 

[johnnyvlee]

I've got a Variax and thus far I have been using a Les Paul model

[Paulzx]

12 hours ago, johnnyvlee said:

 I used to play through some gear that had patches made by Steve Stevens and they all 3 sounded right.

 

Interesting.. what gear where you using before then?

Codamedia is probably spot on with Plexi or JCM 800 for the original recordings, I think you might struggle with the Helix Plexi though as it's not the best.

 

Let us know if you crack it!

[johnnyvlee]

1 hour ago, Paulzx said:

 

Interesting.. what gear where you using before then?

 

It was a Zoom 9150 rack tube preamp/effects unit that I bought in the 90s. Example: https://reverb.com/item/41916665-zoom-9150-valve-dsp-rack-mount-guitar-preamp-effects-unit

Ran it through a Mesa Boogie amp. 

[codamedia]

On 11/21/2021 at 7:31 PM, johnnyvlee said:

I've got a Variax and thus far I have been using a Les Paul model

 

I'll grab my Variax tomorrow morning and see if I can get you into a starting point. 

Steve Stevens was using a Plexi in that era (an early 70's model I believe).... so I'll start there.  

 

13 hours ago, Paulzx said:

Codamedia is probably spot on with Plexi or JCM 800 for the original recordings, I think you might struggle with the Helix Plexi though as it's not the best.

 

Hmmmm... I quite like the Plexi model in the Helix :) 

Goes to show we all perceive things a little differently. 

[Paulzx]

23 hours ago, johnnyvlee said:

It was a Zoom 9150 rack tube preamp/effects unit that I bought in the 90s. Example: https://reverb.com/item/41916665-zoom-9150-valve-dsp-rack-mount-guitar-preamp-effects-unit

Ran it through a Mesa Boogie amp. 

 

Really? The old Zoom stuff, I remember it. Steve Stevens is using Fractal now obviously, you might be able to get the actual patches?

 

Interested to see how close you get with the Helix though

[Paulzx]

10 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

Hmmmm... I quite like the Plexi model in the Helix :) 

Goes to show we all perceive things a little differently. 

 

Oh really lol? I'll go back and have another listen. I went straight to the Plexi model after watching Ritchie Faulkner playing

a real one at his house, but the Helix version was a bit lifeless by comparison, at that time at least. I would love to get a nice sounding

Plexi model working though

[johnnyvlee]

7 minutes ago, Paulzx said:

 

Really? The old Zoom stuff, I remember it. Steve Stevens is using Fractal now obviously, you might be able to get the actual patches?

 

Interested to see how close you get with the Helix though

I was seriously considering Axe FX when I decided that Line 6 had really stepped up the quality of its sounds with Helix. I loved the all-in-one foot unit concept, and I had been playing with rack units and separate controllers and it could sometimes be a PITA.

 

Right now I"m playing Helix through the Powercab 1x12 Plus and to be honest I don't love the sound of the Powercab. I haven't started to explore the use of IRs with it though. I miss my old boogie amps that were brighter and clearer, and had a great overdriven sound.  But for what I am doing these days (all cover music) Helix/Variax is just a much better rig. If I were in a band doing original stuff, maybe I'd just go back to tube amps and pedals. Don't know. I don't miss lugging that heavy gear and dealing with tube amp issues and repair costs.

[johnnyvlee]

12 minutes ago, Paulzx said:

 

Oh really lol? I'll go back and have another listen. I went straight to the Plexi model after watching Ritchie Faulkner playing

a real one at his house, but the Helix version was a bit lifeless by comparison, at that time at least. I would love to get a nice sounding

Plexi model working though

I feel like the first key to Helix sounding good is smart use of EQ (something I'm still trying to learn) and the second is what you play it through (also a work in progress for me). Third might be use of compression.

[Paulzx]

5 minutes ago, johnnyvlee said:

I was seriously considering Axe FX when I decided that Line 6 had really stepped up the quality of its sounds with Helix. I loved the all-in-one foot unit concept, and I had been playing with rack units and separate controllers and it could sometimes be a PITA.

 

Right now I"m playing Helix through the Powercab 1x12 Plus and to be honest I don't love the sound of the Powercab. I haven't started to explore the use of IRs with it though. I miss my old boogie amps that were brighter and clearer, and had a great overdriven sound.  But for what I am doing these days (all cover music) Helix/Variax is just a much better rig. If I were in a band doing original stuff, maybe I'd just go back to tube amps and pedals. Don't know. I don't miss lugging that heavy gear and dealing with tube amp issues and repair costs.

 

You're in a similar situation to myself, only I've had my Helix for a number of years now and tried every trick in the book with it more or less.

The speaker option does make a big difference, I ended up using a pair of FRFR speakers on stands which improved the sound a lot. I think you have to be using IR's in the Helix really, the stock cab sims are just not lively enough.

 

The Axe FX would be a great option but for a more all in one solution like the Helix, FM3 or FM9 - but yes and I've said it many times before, the Helix is the best bang for buck unit you can buy, very versatile, very convenient, but not the best for high gain tones. I have got a decent 2204 Marshall tone dialled in on my Helix, but it took a long time to get it.

 

This is why I'm interested to see if you crack it!

[Paulzx]

13 minutes ago, johnnyvlee said:

I feel like the first key to Helix sounding good is smart use of EQ (something I'm still trying to learn) and the second is what you play it through (also a work in progress for me). Third might be use of compression.

 

Yep, there's a few things that do change the sound. In my experience I would say the output speakers have the most influence in that.

The EQ, kind of, but you do need a decent tone to begin with. The more subtle use of EQ the better, it's good for cutting some stuff here and there. Of course you need to look

at your high and low cut on the IR or cab sim first and foremost

[johnnyvlee]

1 hour ago, Paulzx said:

 

You're in a similar situation to myself, only I've had my Helix for a number of years now and tried every trick in the book with it more or less.

The speaker option does make a big difference, I ended up using a pair of FRFR speakers on stands which improved the sound a lot. I think you have to be using IR's in the Helix really, the stock cab sims are just not lively enough.

 

I'd love to know more about your rig and how you chose it?

 

My concern with most FRFR speakers is they don't respond quite like a guitar speaker.  That can be an issue when using the speaker for guitar feedback. An example song was "Possum Kingdom". Once or twice that I've tried a decent powered monitor as my speaker I found that I got very undesirable feedback. Back when I was using 11 rack through my Heartbreaker amp it sounded freaking awesome. I was hoping Powercab would be better for that and I believe it is, but it doesn't have the power I had hoped for and the sound quality (used just as FRFR mode) isn't blowing me away.

 

Had any experience with that?

 

P.S. Honestly I only use Powercab for my own monitoring and for rehearsal. Playing live I run Helix directly to FOH board. 

[codamedia]

On 11/21/2021 at 7:31 PM, johnnyvlee said:

I've got a Variax and thus far I have been using a Les Paul model

 

Here is a quick 15 minute preset that "I would use" as a starting point for White Wedding. 

• I used my Variax 300, set to the Les Paul model... bridge position.  (don't count on the preset to call up the model... you should do it)
• If you use any other guitars... start with the bridge position and you should expect to have to adjust the amp tone and gain structure to taste. 
• I created it on my Helix LT... it should be streamlined enough to fit on the Stomp if required. 

The basic chain...

• Arbitar fuzz... used only on the "fuzz shots" snapshot
• Plexi Bright Amp.... gain and channel volume change on snapshots
• 4x12 Greenback 20 cab... 121 ribbon at 6" distance
• Chorus ... used only on the "clean" snapshot
• Rochester Comp .... used to apply a studio finish quality to the tone
• Plate Reverb .... just to add some ambience to the part. 

There are three snapshots

• Big Chords.... Used for all the hanging chords, and shots in the verses
• Clean.... This is the arpeggio theme on the intro and solo seciton
• Fuzz Shots.... this is for the tiny little bit parts that answer the clean arpeggios. IMO... I would never switch off to this tone live, but I would use it to track the song in a studio for those bit parts. 

What's missing...

• I didn't apply the flange that would be used in the opening harmonics before the 1st chord kicks in. 
• I don't have your speakers.... this is done on my studio monitors. 
• Any/all fine tuning. This is a rough 15 minute mock up :) 

I hope this helps to steer you in the right direction.... good luck.

White Wedding.hlx

[johnnyvlee]

8 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

Here is a quick 15 minute preset that "I would use" as a starting point for White Wedding. 

...

I hope this helps to steer you in the right direction.... good luck.

White Wedding.hlx 12.6 kB · 4 downloads

 

Man that's really cool of you to put time into this.  I posted this thinking someone might already have a patch from having used Helix to cover the song, but of course even if someone did that doesn't mean they monitor this forum. 

 

Anyway, have it downloaded and I will bang around with it tomorrow after work. Thinking I might make a lead patch from the Big chords.  After a week or so if I have something I think is really good I will share it on the Custom Tone page and credit you.

 

[Paulzx]

21 hours ago, johnnyvlee said:

 

I'd love to know more about your rig and how you chose it?

 

 

I've been on a mission for a while now comparing different speaker solutions - really just trying to get my Helix to sound as good as it possibly could for all my high gain rock stuff, that's where I'm most fussy about the tone. I do have a DT50 amp which I have never run the Helix through actually but may do that just for experience.. my goal was to get the Helix to sound good but using FRFR as I didn't want to keep any amps nowadays, it takes up too much room amongst other issues.

 

So I ended up with a very simple setup - In a small room, Helix on 1/4" cables running into x2 Yamaha HS7 monitor speakers, and when the presets are nicely set up, with stereo delays and reverbs, it's pretty damn good sound, albeit at low volume (not super low, just not obnoxious loud). The HS5's were okay but lacked a bit of low end, the HS8's were too big for the room, the Alto speakers were a horrible mud fest, the 7's were the sweet spot. To be honest, getting really good high gain out of the Helix, is a little bit of alchemy between all of these things, particularly between speakers, high and low cuts on the IR and parameters on the amp model. None of it is good out of the box, you have to develop a feel for the approach to this.

 

How did you get on with Codamedia's white wedding patch?