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cabir

Vintage Pre Ideas/opinions...

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hello, back after a long time.

 

so i must start by saying that i'm very impressed with the inclusion and working of the vintage pre in the pod hd. i've been wanting a harmonic saturation module for a while in the pod so this is a real win. 

 

i would however like to say that while in some cases it works sublte wonders, it doesn't do the trick in all cases. and it would be nice if we could get more mic pre's like this in the future update, or simply a harmonic saturation module equipped to saturate just about anything. 

 

i must add that i'm not using the vintage pre on mics on the xlr input, i'm using it before the amp to get some sweetness in the guitar tone. using it post amp usually end in a distorted sound, and not the good kinds. while there are no rules in the digital space, i feel since this is a 'mic pre', shouldn't it logically be placed after the amp (mic controls are in the amp)... hence the request. 

 

would be great if others who're using it could share their ideas. 

 

anyway, thank you for reading, and have the funs. 

 

:))

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Being a Pre Amp it goes before the Amp.

I'll give it a try out. Up till now haven't as I got the idea that digital analogue warmth is created by adding noise. Not always a bad thing. It is kind of a carrier.

At least that is what I have found testing VST plugins by inserting another instance of said emulation on another track or bus feed by or duplicated track but with one the buss channel phase inverted.

You get a phase cancellation and no sound when set up the same or when both are bypassed.

When you adjust or activate analogue warmth you hear the artifact. this is great way to test plugin compressors as well as I can tell you most have a noise when attack set fast. You can also listen to EQs and Reverbs using this. But some verbs plugins already allow you to listen to a frequency band by this method.

I'll presume Line 6's modeling will add noise as unless it is analogue with tubes and or input and output transformers which add distortion (harmonic noise) when driven..

It is just digital doesn't do it for me.

An example are the tube amp models while can sound great they on any emulation / modelling software cannot do it like the real thing. And one reason why many users still prefer their actual maps to the HD500 models.

The good thing is the HD500 probably gets you 90% there.

Anyone with two HD500 could split the guitar inputs and using the same patch go into their DAW inverting one of the HDs channels.

Then adjust the Vintage Pre to hear what it is doing. Or any of the Amps and FX. It'd be revealing thats for sure.

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Being a Pre Amp it goes before the Amp.

well, it's actually a mic preamp, so it can't go before the amp. 

 

i understand what you're trying to say, but my post is about a module which does a simple saturation thing on all types of audio signal that i pass through the pod. noise ratios, analog vs. digital, phase testing to see what is added/subtracted from the signal etc is not the issue here. 

 

the 'vintage pre' is already good for what it is, in other words it works for me about half the time, but i wouldn't say its "all purpose". so i'm either looking to see ways in which others are using it, or letting line 6 know that a couple more mic preamps, or a simple harmonic saturation plugin would be welcome in future updates.

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kabir, I can't follow your idea...

Why should i put a mic pre amp after the amp model?

mic pre amps are designed to give vocal microphone more warmth. So I see the use of this pre amp on the mic input or if you use an acoustic guitar pups.

In the beginning I preamped my acoustic guitar with this fx. Then found out, that it gives to much harmonic distortion and I startet to use the mid focus eq, it works better for me.

 

This is written in the Line6 model gallery:

"A vintage-voiced, tube mic preamp based on* the Requisite® Y7 vintage Tube Mic Preamp, excellent for use with your Mic source input, Variax acoustic guitar models, or even in conjunction with Bass or Guitar Amps, anywhere in the signal path, to provide some nice tube warmth."

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edgar,

 

i'm pasting a relevant part of the original post below... 

 

i must add that i'm not using the vintage pre on mics on the xlr input, i'm using it before the amp to get some sweetness in the guitar tone. using it post amp usually end in a distorted sound, and not the good kinds. while there are no rules in the digital space, i feel since this is a 'mic pre', shouldn't it logically be placed after the amp (mic controls are in the amp)... hence the request. 

 

 

 

if you're using the vintage pre on a mic plugged into the pod, sure, you want to put it up front in the signal chain.

 

but i'm using it to saturate my processed electric guitar tone, so in this signal chain : amp > cab > mic > vintage pre. my plan is to sweeten the signal from the mic that is being used on the cab. hence i try using it after the amp. ofcourse as i mentioned, that isn't giving a pleasant sound, too much distortion.

 

so even in this situation the vintage pre works better before the amp, which means that i use it up front in the chain and it is adding saturation to the clean signal coming form the pickups, and then sending that into the amp. 

 

hope i've explained clearly. 

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okay I agree. The input of the vintage pre gets clipping very easy! Even on the acoustic guitar and the acoustic models of the Variax I found nasty clipping, so I stopped using this fx.

IMHO using a digital tube pre amp to warm up a digital sound to me is a contradiction  ;)

I really don't see any need to put the vintage pre behind the amp model. In live action you won't hear this very little difference (and I've got two analog mic tube preamps at home).

You will only hear that in high quality studio recording and there I guess you will use real amps  :wub:

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Hi, I tried it out and yes it really adds that tubey quality, better than the tube comp.

I found up to about 50% gain and output. Above that you loose too much definition for my liking but increased gain, it behaves so like my valveking 8 amp.

Thanks for posting your find. I like it for an acceptibly realistic valvey sustain. cheers

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Hi, I tried it out and yes it really adds that tubey quality, better than the tube comp.

I found up to about 50% gain and output. Above that you loose too much definition for my liking but increased gain, it behaves so like my valveking 8 amp.

Thanks for posting your find. I like it for an acceptibly realistic valvey sustain. cheers

 

hey bjnette, glad it helps man. :))

 

ya it does add the tiny bit of a nice saturation i like. i'm using it on my main lead tone with gain on 50 and output on 75 going into the divided 9/15 amp going into the supro cab. i'm getting such a smooth creamy tone, it could put the bogner ecstacy out of business ;D

 

i'm not even using it for too much high end saturation, just to add that layer of shimmer/specular on the tones. it's working very well.

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I use it with my Martin acoustic plugged in the HD500.  I have no amp in the chain and the Vintage Pre is at 80% gain.  It does not sound distorted though.

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i use it similarly for my clean electric tone. no amp, just the raw sound of the pickups going through the vintage pre with a tiny bit of chorus. 

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I use it in front of a tube drive in front of some amp models to get that tube feel when using LVM on my DT50 2x12. Love it. With some tweaking and gain staging it can really add that warmth some models need.

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Remember though, a mic'd amp cab goes into a console channel or dedicated mic pre, and then historically to tape for some tape "glue" saturation.  If you run it post amp, you should probably make use of the lpf knob to trim the high end harmonics.  The hpf can also be used to clean up the mud when it's driven hard.  The idea is to use it as a natural sounding limiter/enhancer, rather than use a compressor that processes the dynamic envelope in an artificial manner.  Tape saturation would be a nice option, but it's often as DSP intensive as an amp model if it's realistic.  Harsh clipping in the Vintage Pre could be from overloading the input.  Keep the amp Channel Output down around 50%.  It can go up higher for clean tones.  Check out my recent posts for more on this matter.   

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But remember that with this set up most rules of the "norm" are thrown out da window...... I can assure u I've gotten some neat and very nice sounding tones using some pretty crazy effects placements.

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I surely have.  I often prefer running modulation FX before distortion pedals in my modeler presets.  It's more old school, I guess.  I run some after distortion pedals.  There are no set rules, but it is helpful to know how each effect really shapes the sound to know how to use it better.  Audio engineers do have some standard practices they use in many scenarios, and the deeper understanding of the gear helps them create vibrant new sounds more quickly without unintentionally compromising something in that sound somewhere in the signal path.

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Has anyone used the Vintage pre with the modeled acoustics guitars on the James Tyler Variax guitars? If so where in the signal chain and at what setting?

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