How to use Match EQ to make Helix EQ settings

[DJ5D]

Has anyone here ever used Match EQ results (from Ozone, Fab, etc) to make EQ settings in Helix?

 

I'm not talking about making IRs here, just using the data from Match EQ to create EQ settings in the Helix that are close enough to be usable.

 

Is it a waste of time trying to do this, or has anyone gotten decent results?

 

And if you did, how did you go about it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SaschaFranck]

All the Match EQs I know of have vastly more "bands" (if you could even say so) than any of the Helix offerings, so while you could possibly try to transfer some of the EQ settings by eye, it'll never be the same. My guess would be that you'd be as fast doing things manually.

[DJ5D]

Yup im getting that feeling. No way to really do it without using an IR, and thus defeats sharing easily.

 

 

[soundog]

I've used Pro Q3 Match EQ for this, with good results. I was doing acoustic guitar patches, though, not electric. You need to make a track of your "target" tone, and your current Helix tone. Use the Match EQ feature on your Helix track (sidechain the target in). You can adjust the number of EQ moves applied (try using around 4), and then look at them individually for frequency, Q, dB settings, and try to duplicate using para EQ in Helix. Adjust to taste. Its worthy of an experiment.

[DJ5D]

@soundog

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

If you wouldn't mind sharing a patch that you feel is a really good example that i can study, I'd appreciate that. 

 

Maybe a snapshot of the original Pro EQ match too, so I can see what you did? And you you using multiple para EQs?

 

If you are on Win10 one of my fave features is the "Shift + Win + S" to grab little shots off areas of the screen. Like this:

 

 

 

 

[soundog]

I don't have any saved examples, but if I find time I'll duplicate an experiment. Not sure what plug you're using above, but most Match functions have either an "amount" or "smoothing" control to adjust the EQ moves applied. Again, try adjusting your curve controls to get a small number of EQ moves you can duplicate. Since Helix para EQ is limited to low, mid, and high (plus low and high pass) controls, you'll have to adjust until you get to those parameters. Don't worry about all the small adjustments. I never tried stacking para eqs, which seems like overkill and analysis paralysis.

[SaschaFranck]

Question: Why would you go through all this (which likely won't turn out too great anway) when you could just create an IR from the Match EQ?

[soundog]

Also worthy of an experiment.

https://meldaproduction.com/tutorials/creative-making-impulse-responses-using-match-eq

[SaschaFranck]

On 12/4/2022 at 6:23 PM, soundog said:

Also worthy of an experiment.

https://meldaproduction.com/tutorials/creative-making-impulse-responses-using-match-eq

 

Quite complicated, IMO.

Here's how I do these things:

- Use any Match EQ to copy whatever sonic imprint (this is described pretty well in the video). Should work similarily with almost all Match EQs.

- Once done, have a track running nothing but that very Match EQ on it.

- Place a "dirac" impulse (basically a sharp full frequency spike) on that track and bounce the result.

- Just to make sure everything will be working correctly, trim the bounced file.

-> There's your matched IR.

 

Note: There's an advanced method as in manipulating an existing IR with a Match EQ, requiring somewhat more pre-select action. Might be worth it, though, simply because even 1024 sample IRs do come with some "distance information" which you will lose when just using a Match EQ.

[SaschaFranck]

And fwiw, in case someone needs dirac impulses, I can post them.

[PaulTBaker]

Very interesting topic, and (as usual) way over my head :).   I am assuming the purpose of this is to match a guitar tone to somebody else's tone.  From my understanding, this would not affect the "dirtiness/cleaness" of the tone, but the "brightness/dullness" of the tone.  Is that a correct assumption?

[SaschaFranck]

On 12/5/2022 at 6:47 PM, PaulTBaker said:

 I am assuming the purpose of this is to match a guitar tone to somebody else's tone. 

 

Correct. Or maybe rather the tone of another amp/cab.

 

On 12/5/2022 at 6:47 PM, PaulTBaker said:

From my understanding, this would not affect the "dirtiness/cleaness" of the tone, but the "brightness/dullness" of the tone.  Is that a correct assumption?

 

Again correct. Match EQs (or the IRs you might generate from their settings) are just a linear thing, so anything dynamic (such as overdrive and compression) isn't covered. As a result of that, if you want to match whatever the original might be, you'd have to set up your own sound to be as close as possible regarding all things drive "structure" and so on. It certainly also helps to use a similar guitar as in the original sound.

[DJ5D]

@SaschaFranck 

 

On 12/4/2022 at 5:57 AM, SaschaFranck said:

Question: Why would you go through all this (which likely won't turn out too great anway) when you could just create an IR from the Match EQ?

 

 

You know, Sascha, you make a great point. 

 

I just have a dream to recreate my favorite go-to IR with the new Helix cab options, for sharing, maybe for the sheer challenge of it.

 

I've come pretty close, but can't quite nail it 100%......yet. ill be happy with a good solid 90.

 

 

[SaschaFranck]

On 12/6/2022 at 4:21 AM, DJ5D said:

I just have a dream to recreate my favorite go-to IR with the new Helix cab options, for sharing, maybe for the sheer challenge of it.

 

I can perfectly understand that - but the cab block's EQ options aren't too capable, so you might need another EQ block in addition, which would make sharing at least as difficult as sharing an IR.