EXT amp switching not working when you enter a snap - turn off switchm then go to new snap with ext amp switch onh

[maxm17]

This one is killing me.  What am In doing wrong? 

HXFX running 3.50

Using snapshots.

Create two snapshots with an Ext amp switch on in both. 

On snap 1, go into it (Mode button) and then turn off Ext Amp switch, (which in my case changes my amp channel from dirty to clean).

Press mode again to get back to Snaps

Press snap 2 that also has ext amp switch on.  SWITCH DOES NOT WORK). Amp switch is lit like it's on and therefore should switch. But it did not change when I went to that snapshot. Stayed on my clean channel.

 

Channel switching breaks if you go into a snapshot, turn off ext. amp switch, go to another snap with ext amp turned on and it doesn't turn on. Stays in off mode even though lit.    

 

This used to work before 3.50

 

Ugh.

 

Hope you can help! :) 

 

 

Amp:

Friedman Runt 50

Ext switch setting: 

Select blank (tip) , Type, blank (latch)

 

 

[datacommando]

On 3/28/2023 at 3:50 AM, maxm17 said:

This one is killing me.  What am In doing wrong? 

HXFX running 3.50

Using snapshots.

Create two snapshots with an Ext amp switch on in both. 

On snap 1, go into it (Mode button) and then turn off Ext Amp switch, (which in my case changes my amp channel from dirty to clean).

Press mode again to get back to Snaps

Press snap 2 that also has ext amp switch on.  SWITCH DOES NOT WORK). Amp switch is lit like it's on and therefore should switch. But it did not change when I went to that snapshot. Stayed on my clean channel.

Hi,

 

As in the reply from @rd2rk to the same thing which you posted in the “Bug Reports” thread - upload a preset, and then other users can troubleshoot the issue.

 

Cross posting the same problem can become very confusing.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[maxm17]

Sorry about the cross post. I though Bugs were for L6 eng and the rest for users.  Please advise if I should delete the other one. :)

 

Preset attached.

Steps to repro:

 

Start with snap 1

Go into snap (Mode switch) and switch off Ext Amp. This should cause an external amp channel switching from dirty to clean channel (works for me on a Friedman and an Orange)

Press Mode Switch to return to snaps view.

Press Snap 4. 

Ext amp switch is on and so amp channel should switch but does not. 

Go into snap 4 (mode switch) see Ext amp is on. Toggle it off and on and amp switch will happen.

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

Grateful for any help you can provide here as this totally changes my set for the worse.

Also happens on other presets / snaps. 

 

Thanks much!

 

I can send video of it happening if it helps. 

 

 

 

HIGHER RD Ext Amp switch problem.hlx

[rd2rk]

On 3/28/2023 at 9:34 PM, maxm17 said:

Sorry about the cross post. I though Bugs were for L6 eng and the rest for users.  Please advise if I should delete the other one. :)

 

Preset attached.

Steps to repro:

 

Start with snap 1

Go into snap (Mode switch) and switch off Ext Amp. This should cause an external amp channel switching from dirty to clean channel (works for me on a Friedman and an Orange)

Press Mode Switch to return to snaps view.

Press Snap 4. 

Ext amp switch is on and so amp channel should switch but does not. 

Go into snap 4 (mode switch) see Ext amp is on. Toggle it off and on and amp switch will happen.

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

Grateful for any help you can provide here as this totally changes my set for the worse.

Also happens on other presets / snaps. 

 

Thanks much!

 

I can send video of it happening if it helps. 

 

 

 

HIGHER RD Ext Amp switch problem.hlx 13.21 kB · 1 download

 

While the explanation is a bit confusing, I do see what you're talking about.

This is a strange is bug/not bug situation.

 

If I'm understanding correctly, your goal is to be able to switch channels within any Snapshot from Stomp Mode, regardless of the Channel selected by the Snapshot, then have the next SS selected select the status as saved in the SS?

 

The NOT BUG part is that Helix family CommandCenter remembers the LAST MESSAGE SENT.

If you do something that sends that same message, the message is not actually re-sent.

If this were a TOGGLING type message, it would work as you desire, but it's not.

It simply tells a function in the HXFX CODE to OPEN or CLOSE a circuit.

It does NOT directly OPEN or CLOSE the circuit.

If the circuit is already OPEN, the CODE knows that the message has already been sent, so nothing happens if you tell it to OPEN again.

 

The IS BUG part is that the FS changes even though the message is not being sent.

Preferably, that would not happen, but there may be other reasons why it works that way.

 

We MIGHT be able to work around this and make the IS BUG work in our favor.

 

Please specify the EXACT models of the amps being used so that I can see how their FS/Channel switching works.

Hopefully their manuals will be better written than most, and actually provide some useful info.

[maxm17]

Thanks much.

These things are hard to describe.

 

Again, I could swear this used to work. But memories are funny things...

 

To make sure we are on the same page:

When I go into Stomp mode on snapshot 1 and turn off Ext Amp Switch, my amp switches to the clean channel. Then I get out of Stomp mode and select snapshot 2 which has Ext Amp Switch set to on. Going to Snap 2 should cause the "on" Ext Amp Switch message to be sent since I'm leaving a snap where it was turned off, yes? 

 

So HXFX sent an Ext Amp Switch off message when, in Stomp mode, I tuned it off with the footswitch. The amp responds appropriately.

I then go to a different snapshot which has Ext mp Switch on. Shouldn't the act of going to that snapshot cause the Ext. Amp Switch message to be sent since we are coming from an Ext. Amp Switch off state?

 

So in answer to these

The NOT BUG part is that Helix family CommandCenter remembers the LAST MESSAGE SENT.

If you do something that sends that same message, the message is not actually re-sent.

 

Last message sent was Ext Amp Switch off (while in Stomp mode). Thus changing my amp from dirty channel to clean channel. Selecting a snapshot with Ext Amp Switch On should constitute a new message, yes? (Previous message was off, new message is on). 

 

The IS BUG part is that the FS changes even though the message is not being sent.

I would say this is not happening.  The second snapshot I am going to is programmed with Ext Amp Switch on. The light on that footswitch reflects that when I go to this snapshot. The snapshot I am leaving had the light off since I had switched it off in Stomp mode.  In the second snapshot with light on but no message being sent to the amp, if I turn  Ext Amp Switch off and then back on again, the amp channel switching occurs. 

 

Amps:

Friedman Runt 50

Orange CR60C

 

Thanks a TON for your help here.  

 

[maxm17]

And yes to answer your question:

What I want / expect is, if I go into Stomp mode from a snapshot and change the state of Ext. Amp Switch, then go to a different snap with an Ext. Amp Switch state different than the one I manually changed in Stomp mode, that HXFX will respect the saved Ext Amp Switch state of that newly selected snap. Just like if I go were going to a snap with Ext Amp switch off to a snap with Ext Amp switch on, the switch message is sent. I expect the same to happen if I go into Stomp mode and manually change the state of that switch, then go to a new snap with the switch in a different state. 

 

Hope this helps! 

 

Thanks again, 

[rd2rk]

I've now tried this every which way I can imagine.

I'm guessing that my understanding of how this works was incorrect.

Bottom line, it SHOULD work as you designed it.

There's a built-in rule that you can't assign two controllers to a single function.

For instance, you can't assign the GAIN parameter to both Snapshots AND a FS.

This rule does not normally apply to CommandCenter messages, but it's possible that it only works with MIDI messages.

It could be there's a hole in the code because nobody anticipated your use case.

 

You should open a support ticket and attach your preset so THEY can troubleshoot it.

Good Luck!

[joanesinu]

Hello,

 

I had the same problem when setting up my snapshots with ext amp switching. There are 2 cases here.

 

1 - You change the ext amp behaviour with the lightning in command center

2 - You have an actual toggle with ext amp switching assigned to it and it will have 1 state for each snapshot (On/Off)

 

What do you have in your preset?

 

My main problem was that the behavior of the lightning into one preset, is DIFFERENT for each snapshot. And you have to set it up and save in EACH snapshot. So, if you are using the lightning method, you have to select snapshot 1, then select in command center the position of the ext amp jack (Tip, ring... etc). Then, you have to go to Snapshot 2, and do the same exact thing, AGAIN. In order to store the config into snapshot 2. The lightning will be assigned to all the snapshots, but the parameters that go with it have to be saved on each one, 4 times, 1 per snapshot.

 

Also, be sure that if you are using this method, the options on ext amp in command center has the options like "tip 1", "tip 2". This is very important. The options with 1 are assigned to the 1 output Jacks. The options with 2 are assigned to the outputs with 2. I mean, If you have your amp switching cable connected into ext amp 1 output and you configure anything like "Tip 2", "Ring 2" "T+R 2" it won't do anything, because you are not using that hole in the hx unit. You should use Tip1, Ring1 etc with the ext amp 1 output/hole in the unit.

 

For the toggle option, you have to do the same. Enter in each snapshot and save the position you want. 4 times, 1 per snapshot.

 

Another very important setting is the behaviour of snapshot changes in "general settings", I think is it there. You can select if a snapshots stores it's state when navigating between snaps, or it will reset it's original state on each snap selection. In my case, I use always reset. I have a snap 1 setted, I go into it, I change things and I go into snap 2. When I go back to snap 1, the snap 1 will be as original state, again, it won't remember what changes did I do to it before the snap change. 

 

But in the case you want the snapshots to remember the changes, even if you navigate between them, you can do it changing the settings. I don't remember exactly where it is but somewhere into general settings.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

[maxm17]

On 3/31/2023 at 12:10 AM, joanesinu said:

Hello,

 

I had the same problem when setting up my snapshots with ext amp switching. There are 2 cases here.

 

1 - You change the ext amp behaviour with the lightning in command center

2 - You have an actual toggle with ext amp switching assigned to it and it will have 1 state for each snapshot (On/Off)

 

What do you have in your preset?

 

My main problem was that the behavior of the lightning into one preset, is DIFFERENT for each snapshot. And you have to set it up and save in EACH snapshot. So, if you are using the lightning method, you have to select snapshot 1, then select in command center the position of the ext amp jack (Tip, ring... etc). Then, you have to go to Snapshot 2, and do the same exact thing, AGAIN. In order to store the config into snapshot 2. The lightning will be assigned to all the snapshots, but the parameters that go with it have to be saved on each one, 4 times, 1 per snapshot.

 

Also, be sure that if you are using this method, the options on ext amp in command center has the options like "tip 1", "tip 2". This is very important. The options with 1 are assigned to the 1 output Jacks. The options with 2 are assigned to the outputs with 2. I mean, If you have your amp switching cable connected into ext amp 1 output and you configure anything like "Tip 2", "Ring 2" "T+R 2" it won't do anything, because you are not using that hole in the hx unit. You should use Tip1, Ring1 etc with the ext amp 1 output/hole in the unit.

 

For the toggle option, you have to do the same. Enter in each snapshot and save the position you want. 4 times, 1 per snapshot.

 

Another very important setting is the behaviour of snapshot changes in "general settings", I think is it there. You can select if a snapshots stores it's state when navigating between snaps, or it will reset it's original state on each snap selection. In my case, I use always reset. I have a snap 1 setted, I go into it, I change things and I go into snap 2. When I go back to snap 1, the snap 1 will be as original state, again, it won't remember what changes did I do to it before the snap change. 

 

But in the case you want the snapshots to remember the changes, even if you navigate between them, you can do it changing the settings. I don't remember exactly where it is but somewhere into general settings.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Not sure why I missed this, thanks!  

I am creating my amp switches just as you described and have them on a footswitch for each snapshot.  Will look in General Settings. That could be helpful, thanks! 

 

I have submitted a ticket to Line 6 support back in 3/30 but have not gotten any traction that all.  12 days after submitting the ticket they told me they will search to see if this is a known bug.  I know they have a tough job. And in the past I've always gotten great support from them and from these forums.  But almost two weeks of inactivity before checking a bug database and they haven't tried to replicate. Oh man...  Meanwhile. Gigs loom.  Very sad face.  

 

Thanks again for the tips.  And sorry to whine.  I worked in tech support in MI for many years. I know it's a tough and often thankless job.  But this has gone sideways.  

 

On 3/31/2023 at 12:10 AM, joanesinu said: