HX effects 4cm with badcat unleash? help!

[thesunship]

HI, I looked for an answer and couldn't find it anywhere. please help! 

 

I purchased a bad cat unleash attenuator which has an external effects loop. I want to use it with a Marshall amp and the hx effects.

 

The unleash goes after the head and then into the speaker, so the efx loop of the unleash is after the head. The hx effects delay works beautifully with this set up, but I would like to be able to add distortion to the front of the amp from the hx effects.

 

Is there a way to have delay go to the external effects loop of the unleash and also get the hx distortion pedals to go into the front of the amp?

 

I tried 4cm but it didn't seem to work since the unleash external effects loop is after the head. I hope any routing experts may be able to help. I'm lost and can't find anyone who has posed this particular question.

 

Again, the delays routed to the effects loop on the unleash work fine, but I want to get the HX distortions to the front of the amp at the same time. Is it at all possible?

 

 

Thanks very much for any advice

[MayPRS]

I think you can use the 4 CM but like this:

 

• Guitar -> HX Effects In
• HX Effects Send 1 -> Marshall Head input
• HX Effects Return 1 -> Bad Cat Unleash FX Loop Send
• HX Effects L Output -> Bad Cat Unleash FX Loop Return

 

And you need a FX Loop block on your signal path on HX (left -> what you want to amp pre (od's, ds')); right -> what you want on Bad Cat FX Loop (delays...))

 

Have you tried this?

[thesunship]

no I haven't, thank you - I will try this. I hope it can work!

 

[thesunship]

On 4/17/2023 at 9:58 AM, MayPRS said:

I think you can use the 4 CM but like this:

 

• Guitar -> HX Effects In
• HX Effects Send 1 -> Marshall Head input
• HX Effects Return 1 -> Bad Cat Unleash FX Loop Send
• HX Effects L Output -> Bad Cat Unleash FX Loop Return

 

And you need a FX Loop block on your signal path on HX (left -> what you want to amp pre (od's, ds')); right -> what you want on Bad Cat FX Loop (delays...))

 

Have you tried this?

I hooked it up this way and put a distortion before the FX block and a delay after. It sounds terrible - totally crackling and breaking up. Also, with that hookup and all effects off, I'm somehow bypassing the amp altogether - it sounds totally clean and boomy on a distorted amp channel.

 

The only way I seem to get a normal amp signal is by using the HX effects in the Bad Cat loop and having time effects after the amp only.

 

I thought maybe someone has had this issue with the PS100, PS2, or Badcat (similar situation with the ext effects loop AFTER the amp), but I can't seem to find a solution other than putting an analogue OD in front of the HX, which is not ideal. If you have any other ideas to try, I'd love to know them.  thank you

[MayPRS]

Thanks for the feedback - I don't have that setup I could try and I'm not even at home so I definitely couldn't tested it :)

 

I guess the way an integrated amp FX loop (like I have) behaves differently from an external one. I guess others in the same situation can chime in :)

 

 

[thesunship]

i hope so - I can't find any info on splitting an external effects loop this way, but with all the hx routing possibilities it seems like it should be able to work....?

 

thanks for your help!

[rd2rk]

 

Global Settings>Ins/Outs

Send/Return 1 = INSTRUMENT 

Send/Return 2 = LINE (assumes that the BCU FX Loop is Line Level - RTM)

 

> indicates signal flow

 

Guitar>HXFX Input>OD/Dist Blocks>Send 1 Block (Dry Thru -120db)

HXFX Send 1>Marshall Input

Marshall Speaker Out>BCU Input>BCU FX Send>HXFX Return 2

Return 2 Block (MIX = 100%)>Delay/Reverb>Send 2 Block

HXFX Send 2>BCU FX Return

BCU Speaker Out>Speaker

[thesunship]

thanks so much - going to try this tonight!!

[thesunship]

thanks again rd2rk, I got home and before I got tied into a meeting online I tried your solution. SO CLOSE!! but I got this -

 

https://youtu.be/JmO8srK19oA

 

Can you tell what the problem is? I don't have the bad cat manual, but I tried different global output settings with no change in the problem. 

 

My other option is getting an M5 and connecting it via midi and then just run it through the front of the amp for some effects. It may be an easier solution, but I'd like to solve this puzzle if possible.....

 

thank you!

[rd2rk]

Video won't play:

 

Video unavailable

This video is private

 

I'm logged in to YT. Something on your end?

[thesunship]

sorry about that - for some reason they make unlisted videos private for a few hours for new youtube channels. I will upload to google drive and send it - thank you!

[thesunship]

ok here's a google drive link - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E_4_guFt6UQ06vskgmJO9WAm45UoqvhL/view?usp=sharing sometimes you have to download it if it isn't processed, but the video is only 240 MB

 

thanks for any help/advice

[rd2rk]

What's that "Analog Drive" thingy? Is that wired in? If so, take it out for now.

I'm having trouble following your wiring, as the video doesn't show clearly what is wired to where.

Can you set it up so I can see the patch bays of all the devices and which wires are going where?

[thesunship]

[thesunship]

 

 

[thesunship]

[thesunship]

took a few shots this morning. So the marshall head and speaker cab are wired correctly to the badcat, the yellow cable is send from BC to the hxfx return 2, the blue cable is return BC to HXFX send2, the black and white cable on hxfx send 1 goes to the input of marshall amp.

 

the guitar plugs into HXFX mono input (not attached because the cord was also blue)

 

Does it look wrong? thanks so much for your time and help with this!

 

 

[thesunship]

oh and the analog drive is not attached at all. 

[rd2rk]

The wiring looks right.

 

If you bypass the Send 1 Block and plug your guitar into the Marshall, does it sound like it did before my mods?

If NO then go back to what worked before with the BCU Loop, but with my Send 1 mods (Guitar>HXFX Input>Send 1>Marshall Input).

If the problem returns then there's something weird in that part of the configuration.

 

If YES then I'm baffled.

Plugging your guitar into the HXFX Input (set to INSTRUMENT) and activating the Send 1 Block (set to INSTRUMENT) then routing Send 1 into the Marshall input is really just like adding FX between the guitar and the amp input, there's nothing about that setup that should be causing the problem that you're hearing.

 

It's virtually the same thing that I do with my Catalyst100/HX Stomp (or Helix Floor), the only difference being that the attenuator is internal on the Catalyst100.

It (the Catalyst attenuator) comes after the FX Return in the signal chain, just like your rig.

[thesunship]

ah ok! I will check tonight when I get in, thanks very much it all makes logical sense. I will update soon - thanks again!

[thesunship]

Yes I know and have tried it - on my DSL the efx loop sounds so good I can cry, but I prefer the Vintage Modern amp's sound and unfortunately the design of the VM is such that it causes distortion in the effects loop. I tried numerous settings with the HX effects, a boss gt100, even an old tonelab, all had the same problems. I looked online and i found numerous users saying the effects loop distorts heavy reverb and delays because of the post phase master. It's maddening - such a great amp and the effects loop is lacking!

 

Using the bad cat gives me a few things which are very useful - VERY clean post effects (finally!), an attenuator so I can crank up the master (very good to do with this particular amp for dynamics/using the guitar as a controller) and finally, a clean boost from the bad cat's two channels which i can incorporate with the HX effects EQ for solos, etc.

 

I know it's a ridiculous workaround for the amp, but I think I'm close to solving the issues..... 

[rd2rk]

Could be his Marshall doesn't HAVE an FX Loop?

Although, if that's the Vintage Modern 2266 it DOES have an FX Loop, so yes, valid question.

Having an FX Loop in the attenuator makes it possible for any amp w/o a built-in FX loop to have time-based FX/ Reverbs after the amp.

It doesn't place them between the pre and power amp sections, but IME that's not really essential.

Also, he specified that the BCU's FX loop works fine with the HXFX delay (in his original configuration), so I don't think that's the problem.

[rd2rk]

On 4/20/2023 at 12:56 PM, thesunship said:

I looked online and i found numerous users saying the effects loop distorts heavy reverb and delays because of the post phase master. It's maddening - such a great amp and the effects loop is lacking!

 

Now we know why the 2266 is discontinued! How in the world did Marshall FU an FX Loop?!?

[thesunship]

hi again, I tried it over the weekend and sure enough I still had the digital distortion no matter what I tried.

 

Having said that, I did get my analog drive to sync with the HXFX midi, so now I have that going straight into the amp for boosts and distortion and the HXFX time effects into the BC. It's nice to have the analog overdrive and control it with the HX, so I'm happy with this workaround. 

 

I appreciate your help rd2rk! thanks very much for trying to help me solve this. I think this will work better overall and it leaves me a lot more blocks to use on the HX.  

[rd2rk]

On 4/24/2023 at 10:38 AM, thesunship said:

hi again, I tried it over the weekend and sure enough I still had the digital distortion no matter what I tried.

 

Having said that, I did get my analog drive to sync with the HXFX midi, so now I have that going straight into the amp for boosts and distortion and the HXFX time effects into the BC. It's nice to have the analog overdrive and control it with the HX, so I'm happy with this workaround. 

 

I appreciate your help rd2rk! thanks very much for trying to help me solve this. I think this will work better overall and it leaves me a lot more blocks to use on the HX.  

 

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