double stereo, how?

[Vostorvic]

Hi all,

I have a challenge... Can't seem to solve it myself .. Here's the situation:

I play a Chapman Stick-like instrument. It has a bas and a melody output.  I send them to return 1/2. Both channels have stereo effects. 

So there are two stereo channels.

Now I want to make a different mix for the xlr's and for the 1/4".

I want the xlr's to have both instrument more or less centred (with stereo effects) For the FOH (and headphones) and

I want the 1/4" outputs to have one channel 90% left and the other 75% right so I can send these outputs to separated bass and guitar amps.

I have been puzzling but I can't seem to find the solution...

Anybody? 

[theElevators]

You'd have to replicate your signal path twice.. on the Helix you can do that.  You have 2 DSP chips, in other words 2 lines on the Helix.  So create your signal twice: top one will be the XLR mix, the bottm will be 1/4". 

 

Frankly sounds like an overkill.  But doable. 

[datacommando]

On 6/10/2023 at 12:12 AM, Vostorvic said:

Hi all,

I have a challenge... Can't seem to solve it myself .. Here's the situation:

I play a Chapman Stick-like instrument. It has a bas and a melody output.  I send them to return 1/2. Both channels have stereo effects. 

So there are two stereo channels.

Now I want to make a different mix for the xlr's and for the 1/4".

I want the xlr's to have both instrument more or less centred (with stereo effects) For the FOH (and headphones) and

I want the 1/4" outputs to have one channel 90% left and the other 75% right so I can send these outputs to separated bass and guitar amps.

I have been puzzling but I can't seem to find the solution...

Anybody? 

 

Hi,

 

Well, this is a challenge. It would help to know what HX device you are connecting to? I would guess Helix Floor, but you didn't say.

 

I also get the idea of having 2 different paths, one for bass and the second for the melody and all of this in stereo. Fine so far, but if you are using a Helix why use the Return 1/2 for input when you have the option of using the Guitar In and Aux In connections to run 2 full stereo paths direct to the XLR Out balanced left and right? This then feeds the FOH and your IEMs or headphones.

 

Now this is where it really starts to confuse me. You want a duplicate of Paths 1A &1B running on Paths 2A & 2B. That should be possible, but it doesn't require stereo, (or amps). I can't see any way that it would work, sending 90% stereo to the left and 75% right. It simply doesn't make any sense. The bass and guitar amps a probably mono anyway. Simply Pan Path 2A to the LEFT 100% and Path 2B to the RIGHT 100% = Bass Left, Melody Right.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

[Vostorvic]

well. I want the bass to go to the bass amp and the 'melody' to the guitar amp, but it do like some stereo bleed so that is why I don't want it 100 / 100. Bass and guitar amps are mono indeed but the two of them make stereo!

The guitar input is in use by a (bass) guitar..

 

 

[datacommando]

On 6/10/2023 at 11:52 PM, Vostorvic said:

well. I want the bass to go to the bass amp and the 'melody' to the guitar amp, but it do like some stereo bleed so that is why I don't want it 100 / 100. Bass and guitar amps are mono indeed but the two of them make stereo!

The guitar input is in use by a (bass) guitar..

Hi,

 

This is exactly what I mean by confusing. What you are trying to achieve is really complicated.
 

Yes, you will require a bass amp and guitar amp on Path 1A & 1B, because two those are going to the FOH desk and phones, but also consider that even though both of those paths are stereo all the way to the XLR outputs, when each XLR is essentially mono - either left or right. In fact using the left channel only is MONO out. This is when you would use the stereo bleed (panning) you mention, otherwise you would have mono left and right, negating the choice of stereo processing.

 

The reason I mentioned 100/100 is so that each channel (2A & 2B) would be sent 100% bass to the bass amp and 100% guitar signal to the guitar amp, and as these audio signal are going to “real” amps, there would be little point in including modelled amps in those paths. Do you really want to bass part of the signal chain feeding a guitar amp and vice versa?

 

From your description of a “Chapman Stick-like instrument” - do you mean an NS/Stick, because AFAIK they have Active EMG Pickups and the Aux In on Helix is for use with active pups.

Anyhow, now my head hurts with this, but I do know that other “Sticky” folks have had success using Helix.
 

Check this:

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

I’m going to get drunk now!

[Vostorvic]

Thanks for breaking your head! ;-) 

I'll keep trying and keep you posted..

 

[Vostorvic]

I now find that I cannot duplicate path A to B because I can only use return 3/4 once it seems..

 

 

 

 

[datacommando]

On 6/11/2023 at 7:56 PM, Vostorvic said:

I now find that I cannot duplicate path A to B because I can only use return 3/4 once it seems.

O.K.

 

Now I’m really confused, because you have not mentioned the use of Return 3/4 previously.

 

In your original post you mentioned using Return 1/2 as an input for your Stick type gizmo. You still haven’t said what this mysterious instrument is? It might help to know. I did suggest previously that if this Sticky thing has active pups then you could use the AUX IN for bass and use the Guitar in for the guitar part of the Stick thing. Result - Return 1/2 are freed up.

 

NOTE: Ah, now I recall, you are the guy who posted about why some blocks were greyed out on your unit, and if I recall correctly, you were advised to get familiar with the device by checking the Helix Owner’s Manual. I also commented - “I suggest you might want to reassess your approach to how you set up a preset.” From these current posts I appears you haven’t done that, and if there is a difficult way to do something then you will find it. Sometimes when you’re in a hole, it is wise to stop digging. Please take time to figure out what is and what is not feasible - Helix can perform som amazing tricks, but be aware there are limitations.

The link I provided earlier is to a guy who uses a Chapman Stick and a NS/Stick, and he was kind enough to post a preset to CustomTone to help others - maybe you should check it out.

https://line6.com/customtone/tone/5086742/

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

Edited June 11, 2023 by datacommando
Added link

[datacommando]

On 6/11/2023 at 7:38 PM, Vostorvic said:

Thanks for breaking your head! ;-) 

I'll keep trying and keep you posted..

 

 

O.K. Let's stop dicking around with this.

 

Here's a preset that runs your Bass (input on AUX IN) through a bunch of stuff (some stereo) on Path 1A out to XLR panned Centre - Split to Path 1B uses a switched off Gain block to collapse the signal to mono and sends that though the 1/4" jack panned 100% Left.

 

Path 2A does a similar thing with the Guitar input into some stereo FX  and out to the XLR panned Centre - Split to 2B uses a switched off Gain block to collapse the signal to mono and sends that though the 1/4" jack panned 100% Right.

 

Play around with this as much as you want but work on a copy because something is bound to get pushed over the edge.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

Stereo_Mono-Out.hlx

 

[Voctorvis]

Good! I'll check this out this evening!

 

First: I did start with the manual, as you have read i found limits that "I did not find in the manual"

 

My instrument is a stick-like or Warr if you wish tapguitar with three active outputs: bass, melody and midi. The last I did not mention before because I did not want to make it more complicated. Midi goes to a Roland GR55 that has stereo out (to return 3/4) 

I have a bass guitar on the guitar input but this is not really needed as I do not play both simultaneous. but then I have to replug between songs.

 

I am good with limits and I will find them.

I come from an Axefx with extreme possibilities but no userfriendliness. I am happy with Helix (oh I use the rack version)