JRSpin Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 What's up guys! A question about Input Impedance: I've been using my Stomp XL with my analog drives around it, but most of the time, I tend to use only the drives from the Stomp, as I've found a few of them very useful for my needs. But I've noticed on the modulation effects, the 70s Chorus model, bring down the overall volume a lot! Models like the Chorus or other modulation effects didn't seemed to have the same issue, so I thought that could be a Input impedance issue. My In-Z setting on all of my presets it's "auto" and on my preferences it's "enabled". I've saw a video from John Cordy months ago explaining about that, so when it's set to "first" it will consider the impedance of the first pedal in chain, wheter it is on or off, and when you set to "enabled" the impedance will be set by the first pedal enabled in the chain, so I've been using this way since the day that this option made available. My question is: How do you guys work with this? I'm not complaining about not using the 70s Chorus, since there's a lot of other good models there. But I've been basically using only the stomp with my tube amp at my gigs, even if I bring my drive pedals around it. Would you guys recommend any settings? All the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Input impedance affects the high frequencies through its loading of the guitar pickups (geeky electronics stuff). There may be a perceived volume drop due to the lack of highs if the input impedance is significantly lower than 1M, but that's not what's happening here. Those FX just need their Output Level parameter increased. A simple case of Occam's Razor. Keep in mind that if you're using an analog (or digital) effect between the guitar and Helix, THAT is what's loading your pickups. If the effects are True Bypass then the total cable run between the guitar and Helix is affecting the highs by virtue of cable capacitance (more geeky electronics stuff). Likewise, if you're using a wireless, most load the pickups at 1M to match what the load would be going direct into the amp's input. Active pickups are immune to all of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmalle Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 On 6/23/2023 at 2:12 AM, JRSpin said: What's up guys! A question about Input Impedance: I've been using my Stomp XL with my analog drives around it, but most of the time, I tend to use only the drives from the Stomp, as I've found a few of them very useful for my needs. But I've noticed on the modulation effects, the 70s Chorus model, bring down the overall volume a lot! Models like the Chorus or other modulation effects didn't seemed to have the same issue, so I thought that could be a Input impedance issue. My In-Z setting on all of my presets it's "auto" and on my preferences it's "enabled". I've saw a video from John Cordy months ago explaining about that, so when it's set to "first" it will consider the impedance of the first pedal in chain, wheter it is on or off, and when you set to "enabled" the impedance will be set by the first pedal enabled in the chain, so I've been using this way since the day that this option made available. My question is: How do you guys work with this? I'm not complaining about not using the 70s Chorus, since there's a lot of other good models there. But I've been basically using only the stomp with my tube amp at my gigs, even if I bring my drive pedals around it. Would you guys recommend any settings? All the best! The 70s chorus uses 22kOhm, because the real Boss CE-1 does. It is a line input device. You can set the input impedance to 1MOhm or put a neutral gain block as first "dummy" block. Or mess with the global settings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmalle Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 On 6/23/2023 at 5:29 PM, rd2rk said: [...]There may be a perceived volume drop due to the lack of highs if the input impedance is significantly lower than 1M, but that's not what's happening here. The 70's chorus actually is the low impedance exception in the modulation category. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRSpin Posted June 23, 2023 Author Share Posted June 23, 2023 On 6/23/2023 at 1:36 PM, Schmalle said: The 70s chorus uses 22kOhm, because the real Boss CE-1 does. It is a line input device. You can set the input impedance to 1MOhm or put a neutral gain block as first "dummy" block. Or mess with the global settings. You are right! The only down side that I see if I do that is that I can't use the Fuzz in the HX properly. I'm thinking of staying with "Auto" input impedance and "Enabled" set in preferences. I'll keep using other chorus types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRSpin Posted June 23, 2023 Author Share Posted June 23, 2023 On 6/23/2023 at 3:29 PM, JRSpin said: You are right! The only down side that I see if I do that is that I can't use the Fuzz in the HX properly. I'm thinking of staying with "Auto" input impedance and "Enabled" set in preferences. I'll keep using other chorus types. Since I never use a fuzz with a chorus, I'll set a footswitch to activate the 70s Chorus and to change the input impedance to 1MOhm at the same time. I think would be the better solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 On 6/23/2023 at 10:36 AM, Schmalle said: The 70s chorus uses 22kOhm, because the real Boss CE-1 does. It is a line input device. You can set the input impedance to 1MOhm or put a neutral gain block as first "dummy" block. Or mess with the global settings. I usually think of INST vs LINE as "Level" related and INPUT IMPEDANCE as a "Tone" (via pickup loading) setting. As pointed out, switching to 1M from AUTO solves the problem, and in fact there's an <>8db difference between AUTO (22k?) and 1M. So now I'm confused about the relationship between Input LEVEL and Input IMPEDANCE? Can you straighten me out on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmalle Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 On 6/23/2023 at 9:58 PM, rd2rk said: I usually think of INST vs LINE as "Level" related and INPUT IMPEDANCE as a "Tone" (via pickup loading) setting. As pointed out, switching to 1M from AUTO solves the problem, and in fact there's an <>8db difference between AUTO (22k?) and 1M. So now I'm confused about the relationship between Input LEVEL and Input IMPEDANCE? Can you straighten me out on this? Sure; Less input impedance means more of the guitar's signal escapes through said impedance to ground. The input impedance is in parallel with the volume knob on the guitar. Lowering it has the same effect. (EDIT: This is a simplification - the volume pot is also in series at the same time). A pickup is a coil of copper wire with a magnetized core. It has resistance, capacitance and inductance that together act a resonant circuit which means at a certain frequency (1.5kHz to 4kHz) it "rings". This is often called the resonant peak. It is tamed when you decrease the input impedance. The sound looses character / attack / aggression / harshness depending on how much this peak sticks out in the frequency spectrum. It's like mustard - very nice on a Bratwurst, very annoying in a milk shake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 On 6/23/2023 at 2:54 PM, Schmalle said: The input impedance is in parallel with the volume knob on the guitar. Lowering it has the same effect. Thanks. I didn't know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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