Helix sending random MIDI messages

[TCStuckey3]

I have my stomp switches set to change snapshots but sometimes they are also sending weird MIDI messages that are triggering my other devices.  I’ve attached a pic of a midi message recorder showing what is sent.  I’m just pressing different switches with snapshots assigned.  You can see it send the program change 3 each time, which is one of the instant messages assigned to the preset (which, by the way, I would prefer not happen, but as I understand it any snapshot change automatically resends the instant messages), but you can also see random controller messages sent.  Some even on midi channel 2.  These messages exist in the preset on another stomp switch that is solely used to send them, but they are being sent when I change snapshots.  This has been happening prior to 3.70 and still there after updating to 3.70, and even after going to 3.71.  Any ideas?

[rd2rk]

Which hardware? Helix, HXS, ?

Attach a sample preset which displays this behavior and I'll have a look at it.

 

[Schmalle]

Commands are per Snapshot. In Command Center you'll find your answers.

[TCStuckey3]

It is a Helix Floor.  Can't find it in command center.  Every snapshot still has the switches set up to choose another snapshot.  Unless there is some way to assign both a snapshot change and a MIDI command to one footswitch, I don't see how this is happening.  I've attached one of the presets.  Thanks for the help, @rd2rk.

 

 

Rooster 1.hlx

[rd2rk]

Snapshots 1-7 have InstantCommand1 set to send PC#3 on MIDI CH1.

That will happen when you load the preset.

If it's happening on every SS change (and you don't WANT it to) then I'm guessing that in Global Settings>MIDI/Tempo you have "Duplicate PC Send" set to ON. Turning it OFF should stop PC#3 from sending on every SS change, just on Preset Load.

Also, have a look at Global Settings>Preferences>Snapshot Reselect. If that's set to RELOAD then if you reselect a SS it will resend its assigned messages regardless of what has already been sent (see below IOW section).

 

On SS1-4 you have FS5 configured to send a Toggling CC#80 on MIDI CH2.

That will send on Preset Load but won't send again until you select SS5-7 where FS5 is configured to send CC#0 on your BASE channel (default is 1).

After you select one of those Snapshots (5-7), when you select SS1-4 CC#80 will send again, then not again until you select SS5-7.

 

IOW - the rule is that once a FS or IC sends it's assigned message it will not RE-send that SAME message until after another SS causes it to send a DIFFERENT message.

Also, Toggling messages (CCs, Notes) send on EVERY SS change IF a previously called SS sends a different Value - 0/127. Normally you would not use a Toggling CC attached to a switch whose primary function is to switch Snapshots, though you might want to use a non-Toggling CC to send a Value specific to the needs of THAT SS.

Keep in mind that once you start using Snapshots, ANYTHING you assign to ANY FS or IC affects EVERY SS! You need to edit each SS's FS and IC assignments independently to ensure that they ONLY do EXACTLY what you WANT them to do in EACH SS. A FS assigned in one SS but not SPECIFICALLY configured in another will present with the DEFAULTS for that message type in the called SS.

 

***** I suggest that in Global Settings>Preferences you set "Snapshot Edits" to RECALL so that you don't lose your settings between Snapshot edits and only have to SAVE the preset once when done. WARNING!!! DO NOT CHANGE PRESETS WITHOUT SAVING OR YOU LOSE ALL SNAPSHOT CHANGES!!!

OR try to remember to SAVE each time BEFORE switching to another SS (GOOD LUCK with that!).

 

I'm not going to give myself a headache trying to figure out all of the crazy interactions that occur when SS8 is selected.

Remember that EVERY FS and IC in EVERY SS has to be configured. Accidentally selecting an unconfigured SS during a performance could have unpredictable results and could result in an embarrassing "WTF!?" moment!

 

Some more advice:

When using Stomp Mode switches to change Snapshots remember that when you get to the new SS that FS will revert to the defaults for the SS message.

The Scribble Strip will display what the FS does on the NEXT press, so if you expect it to go to a specific SS but it displays SNAPSHOT^ (or anything other than what you want it to do next) that's a tipoff that it needs to be configured.

 

Has your brain exploded yet? Questions?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TCStuckey3]

Wow.  First of all, thanks for taking the time to comb through that.  Much appreciated.  The main problem was that FS5 should always be configured to send the toggling message on Ch. 2.  Somehow that got messed up on SS5-7 and it went to 0 on base channel.  Easy to remedy.  Some questions:

 

- You say "On SS1-4 you have FS5 configured to send a Toggling CC#80 on MIDI CH2.  That will send on Preset Load but won't send again until you select SS5-7 where FS5 is configured to send CC#0 on your BASE channel (default is 1). After you select one of those Snapshots (5-7), when you select SS1-4 CC#80 will send again, then not again until you select SS5-7."  I don't want it to ever send on preset load or SS selection.  I want it only to send when I hit FS5 no matter what SS I'm in.  Now, it is a toggle that sends 127 when I depress FS5 and then 0 when I come off.  The device I'm using needs the 0 to "reset" itself.  Is this why it is not sending on preset load or snapshot change?  I hope so because for the most part it has been working except for the random send when I go from SS5-7 and back to 1-4.  If I fix my mistake you caught as I mentioned above it will hopefully resolve.  But I'm confused on why you're saying it should fire on every SS change.

 

- You say "Normally you would not use a Toggling CC attached to a switch whose primary function is to switch Snapshots, though you might want to use a non-Toggling CC to send a Value specific to the needs of THAT SS."  Is that even possible?  When I assign a FS to choose a snapshot I don't even see a way to also make it a toggling CC.  Maybe I'm missing something but command center only lets me assign a FS to Snapshot HX or Toggle CC, not both.  But, again, that's fine because I'm not trying to do that.  FS5's sole purpose is to send the toggling CC#80 in all snapshots.  The other FS have SS assignments.

 

I'm going to fix the SS5-7 problem and see what happens.  

 

Thanks again for your time and effort.

 

-

[rd2rk]

On 1/29/2024 at 8:27 PM, TCStuckey3 said:

- You say "On SS1-4 you have FS5 configured to send a Toggling CC#80 on MIDI CH2.  That will send on Preset Load but won't send again until you select SS5-7 where FS5 is configured to send CC#0 on your BASE channel (default is 1). After you select one of those Snapshots (5-7), when you select SS1-4 CC#80 will send again, then not again until you select SS5-7."  I don't want it to ever send on preset load or SS selection.  I want it only to send when I hit FS5 no matter what SS I'm in.  Now, it is a toggle that sends 127 when I depress FS5 and then 0 when I come off.  The device I'm using needs the 0 to "reset" itself.  Is this why it is not sending on preset load or snapshot change?  I hope so because for the most part it has been working except for the random send when I go from SS5-7 and back to 1-4.  If I fix my mistake you caught as I mentioned above it will hopefully resolve.  But I'm confused on why you're saying it should fire on every SS change.

 

Now that I have a better idea of what you're trying to do I've been able to make some changes to eliminate (I hope) the unwanted behaviors.

I've copied FS5 to SS5-7 and made certain (I think) that SS8 does nothing unexpected.

 

Instant Commands send on preset and snapshot load.

With Global Settings>MIDI/Tempo>DUPLICATE PC SEND = OFF that prevents PC#3 sending on every SS change, it only sends on Preset Load.

 

I assume that you're using FS5 to toggle something on another device which requires a MOMENTARY message.

Toggling CCs send the DIM Value on Preset and Snapshot load. That's the way it works, no way around it.

BUT if the Value has already been sent on Preset Load, it won't send again on Snapshot Load until a DIFFERENT CC# or Value has been sent.

Since 0 is the "reset" Value it SHOULD (fingers crossed) have no effect on whatever is happening on the unspecified external device.

Since the RELEASE Value of FS5 is 0, it won't send again on Snapshot Load after pressing FS5.

 

 

Try the attached mod of your preset and let me know.

 

 

Rooster 1 Mod.hlx

[TCStuckey3]

OK.  I think I get how it works now.  Did you do anything besides copy FS5 to SS5-7?  Because I did that already when I sent my last reply and it was much worse.  It was triggering the sample even more.  But yours seems to be better (by the way I don't use SS8, I forgot to tell you that.)   And now that I go back to my original one it seems to be better since i corrected the FS5 issue, but I still get an CC80 value of 0 coming through on snapshot change.  Doesn't seem to have a pattern, just on SS change somtimes.  Theoretically, this shouldn't matter because that's the dim value, but still a little concerning.  

 

The device I'm controlling is a Boss RC-5 loop station.  But I use it to play recorded samples, not as a looper.  I've read that it has some weird midi quirks, so maybe that's part of it, but there's no question the Helix is occasionally sending a zero value.  But maybe changed some other parameters in your mod, because yours doesn't do it.

 

Thanks again for all the help.

[rd2rk]

All I can say is to examine how I've got it configured.

As for CC#80, since it's MOMENTARY it always sends Value 0 after Value 127, so it shouldn't ever trigger on Snapshot changes, only once on Preset Load.