Problem with stereo return levels using 4C with HX effects and Torpedo Captor X

[knob4002]

Hi! I got an HX Effects unit and I'm very happy about it.

 

I was experimenting with my Captor X / Amp Head / HX Effects and I'd like to use them all togheter.

 

The signal flow is set like this:

 

Guitar -> HX Effects input set to INSTRUMENT level

 

Send 1 (mono) from HX Effects set to INSTRUMENT level -> Amp in

 

Amp speaker out -> Torpedo Captor X (used as Amp&Cab block)

 

Torpedo Captor X Balanced Stereo Output xlr to jack -> stereo Return on HX effects set to LINE level.

 

Here is where the problems starts:

 

if I set the send/return 1 to instrument level to optimal level and impedance for the amp I'll found myself with the wrong level on one side of the stereo return, that uses both returns from 1 (instrument) and 2 (line)

 

If I set both send/returns on HX Effects to LINE level I'll crank my amp too easily due to to high output from send 1 to amp in.

 

Is there a way to solve this issue?

 

Can I just raise down the level form send 1 to amp to match the correct signal or there's an impedance problem due to level/instrument impedance?

 

Thanks!

[rd2rk]

On 6/16/2025 at 1:18 AM, knob4002 said:

Amp speaker out -> Torpedo Captor X (used as Amp&Cab block)

 

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

 

Send 1 needs to be INSTRUMENT Level at 0db (UNITY) because that's what the Amp's Input wants to see.

 

Set both FX Loops to INSTRUMENT.

 

You should be able to use the OUTPUT knob on the front of the Captor-x to set the Captor's Output Level low enough to not overdrive the HXFX Returns if the XLRs are LINE level. They SHOULD be MIC level being XLR and designed for connection to FOH, so that should not be a problem. Since MIC level is lower than INSTRUMENT level, you may have to turn that knob up quite a bit or even raise the RETURN level on the FX Loop Blocks. Start with the RETURN levels at 0db (default) and the knob at 0 and turn it up slowly.

 

[knob4002]

Thank you so much for the answer, I'll try to set everything to INSTRUMENT.

 

"Amp speaker out -> Torpedo Captor X (used as Amp&Cab block)" means that I'm going from 8Ohm Speaker Output of my AmpHead to Speaker in of the Torpedo, and both are used as an "Amp&Cab" block of the chain: inserted in the HX Effects chain via mono send and stereo Return.

 

[rd2rk]

What make/model amp are you using? Does it have an FX Loop?

I ask because there doesn't seem to be a reason for the stereo RETURN to the HXFX.

 

The routing (with amp FX Loop) should be:

 

Guitar -> HX Effects input set to INSTRUMENT level

 

HXFX PRE FX such as OD, MOD etc.

 

HXFX Send 1 (FX Loop 1 set to INSTRUMENT level) -> Amp in

 

Amp FX SEND -> HXFX RETURN 1 

 

HXFX POST FX such as (MONO) DELAY, REVERB etc.

 

HXFX L/MONO Main Out (set to INSTRUMENT LEVEL) -> Amp FX RETURN

 

Amp speaker out -> Torpedo Captor X -> (attenuator) -> Amp's Speaker

 

Captor-x XLR (L or R set to DUAL MONO with IR or both set to Stereo with IR) -> FOH

 

This routing puts PRE FX before your amp's PREAMP and POST FX between the PREAMP and POWER AMP.

ALL FX are then sent to the amp's (attenuated) speaker and through the Captor's IR (selected via SW)>XLR to FOH.

 

Of course, if your amp does NOT have an FX Loop, ALL FX must come BEFORE the amp but again, no reason to return the signal to the HXFX.

The routing would then be:

 

Guitar -> HX Effects input set to INSTRUMENT level

 

ALL HXFX effects

 

HXFX L/MONO Out (INSTRUMENT LEVEL) -> Amp Input

 

Amp speaker out -> Torpedo Captor X -> (attenuator) -> Amp's Speaker

 

Captor-x XLR (L or R set to DUAL MONO or both set to Stereo with IR -> FOH

 

Technically, you COULD return the signal to the HXFX via the Captor's 1/4" Out and use the HXFX IRs for FOH, but I see no point in doing that, as it would simply add unnecessary complexity and reduce available FX Blocks/DSP in the HXFX. The Captor-x has that covered via the XLRs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[knob4002]

Thanks for the answer,

 

My Amp has an fx loop but I'm a little bit confused about the routing:

 

If I understand it in a proper way I will lose any stereo effect into HX Effects, I'll be only able to use MONO blocks.

 

i.e.: a stereo ping pong delay or a stereo dynamic Hall reverb wich I found (on Helix) is better than the ones provided by the Captor X.

 

This is why I'd like to use my AmpHead+Captor as a "block" into HXFX chain.

 

Yesterday I was able to try for a short time configuring all the

send/returns of HXFXs to INSTRUMENT (lowering the oT VOL on the Torpedo and leveling to proper level) and it worked: the strange thing I've noticed is a strong hum in the background.

 

 

[rd2rk]

Your amp is MONO. Unless it isn't, which wouldn't matter because...

Your Captor is MONO.

The only stereo fx possible FROM the Captor is when you use the Two Notes FX.

You cannot send stereo TO the Captor.

You can put your amp into an HXFX Block, but you can't send that signal back to the Captor without creating a feedback loop because the Captor does not have its own internal FX Loop - it only has the one MONO input. In any case, if it DID have an internal FX Loop it would have to be STEREO to do what you want.

 

The MONO solution I suggested previously is your only option with your existing gear.

 

 

 

[datacommando]

On 6/18/2025 at 6:33 PM, rd2rk said:

Your amp is MONO. Unless it isn't, which wouldn't matter because...

Your Captor is MONO.

Yay! Thanks @rd2rk that saved me from lots of typing!

 

[rd2rk]

On 6/18/2025 at 3:48 PM, datacommando said:

Yay! Thanks @rd2rk that saved me from lots of typing!

 

 

De nada! You get to keep track of and post all of those informative links...

[knob4002]

Thank you but you are wrong: Torpedo Captor X is a STEREO device (Torpedo Captor 4/8/16 - the black one - which I owned before is a MONO device), when the signal goes through reverbs and/or twin tracker your signal is STEREO. You can check it even from pictures of the app used to control the device: you can select STEREO or DUAL MONO.

 

Torpedo Captor X has two XLR Outputs and it can be used in MONO / DUAL MONO / STEREO (If you like it and you're interested about it).

 

I know that probably all Guitar Amplifiers are MONO in, MONO send/return, MONO out.

 

Maybe it was my fault not to specify that I'm Playing at home, going STEREO out from the HXFX through a Walrus Audio Canvas STEREO that goes to my STEREO audio channel 1\2 of my Audio Sound Card.

 

Why do I need stereo from Captor X?

 

'Cos I'd like to use a subtle ROOM REVERB + TWIN TRACKER from Torpedo going out in STEREO from Captor into my HXFX.

 

In my signal Chain - into the HXFX - I got a block called STEREO RETURN (which I've set to instrument as correctly suggested before).
I've used it, I set the correct level from captor x and the AFTER this Block:  - STEREO VINTAGE DELAY + STEREO DYNAMIC HALL.

 

This is the way I'm using it now, and it's working ;)

 

The only problem I'm trying to solve now is annoying hum... not so loud, but significantly increased compared to another config where I go direct with guitar into the amp - then Captor - then stereo return Block on HXFX which in this case is the FIRST block at the beginning, but obviously doesn't let you use distortion/boost/compressor (in MONO) BEFORE the amp...

[datacommando]

On 6/19/2025 at 10:08 AM, knob4002 said:

 

This is the way I'm using it now, and it's working ;)

 

The only problem I'm trying to solve now is annoying hum...

 

Hi,

 

Well, after @rd2rk has made several attempts to solve your issue, we all finally get to see the “big picture” - that certainly helps.

 

Right, I will go for the most obvious thing regarding “annoying hum” - have you pushed in the GND Lift button on your Walrus box? I ask this because you didn’t mention it. The ground lift is designed to eliminate hum by isolating the ground pin on the XLR connections.

 

I am just throwing this out there, to see if it reveals anymore hidden bits of this puzzle. One thing at a time.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

 

[knob4002]

Thank you so much for your contribution about the puzzle! :D

 

I've tried using "lift" on the Walrus Audio and on the Captor X, but the hum stays the same, just when I push the button on the Captor X the hum INCREASES instead of being eliminated. So confused about it but I know I should analyze much more in depth the "ground loop" question.

 

I've read that people who uses HXFX in 4CM "the mono way", using - amp send/return - cuts the ground wire from cables that goes from send to return on the HXFX. As reported in the attached pic.

 

I don't think it's safe to disconnect the ground from XLR of the Torpedo X to HXFX. Isn't it?

 

If it can be useful as additional info I've created the XLR to TRS Jack cables following This scheme:

 

XLR to Stereo Jack

 

maybe I should have wired them this way:

 

XLR to Mono jack

 

using mono jack instead of TRS...

 

Anyway: I should have been more clear BEFORE and I'm really sorry about that, thanks to those who are giving their contribution to the solution!

Edited June 19, 2025 by knob4002
additional info to get things clearer

[rd2rk]

I read the Captor-x manual before I replied to your post.

I'm sorry, but only the XLR and HP Outs are stereo.

The INPUT is MONO, as is the speaker out.

Unless I'm missing something, the only FX you're getting out of your amp's speaker are whatever effects are in your amp.

From the Captor-x manual - "You can connect your cabinet to the SPEAKER OUT if you wish to hear your dry amp sound on stage".

 

So, you're only using your amp to monitor your dry signal, you're using the playback system attached to your sound card to monitor your effected signal.

There's nothing wrong with that but knowing the full picture would have saved me a lot of typing.

I suppose that using both the dry amp and stereo effected playback system could be considered W/D/W... :-)

 

As to your HUM problem.

 

On 6/19/2025 at 5:08 AM, knob4002 said:

I've read that people who uses HXFX in 4CM "the mono way", using - amp send/return - cuts the ground wire from cables that goes from send to return on the HXFX. As reported in the attached pic.

 

I use my Helix (or HX Stomp - same as HXFX but with amps) in 4cm with my Catalyst. No, I don't do that.

 

I'm pretty sure that the cables should be wired XLR>TS, not TRS.

 

Some other POSSIBILITIES:

First, your amp. Especially if it is a TUBE amp, it can HUM. Most any hi-gain amp HUMS.

Second, make sure that everything from your HXFX to your amp to your playback system and computer/DAW is connected to the same filtered surge/power strip and keep in mind that "switching" power supplies (aka wall warts), ESPECIALLY when used in combination vs using an isolated multi-output power supply, are notoriously noisy.

Check to see that there are no major appliances or rheostats on the house circuit that the power strip is attached to.

 

You can TRY using a Hum-buster type device between the Captor and HXFX OR between the HXFX and your soundcard OR between the soundcard and powered speakers. Try in all three locations to see which works best. There's no point using more than one in your application.

 

I use these at several points in my "studio". They're cheap, work pretty well and have both 1/4" and XLR connectors:

 

Amazon.com: Pyle Compact Mini Hum Eliminator Box - 2 Channel Passive Ground Loop Isolator, Noise Filter,AC Buzz Destroyer, Hum Killer w/ 1/4" TRS Phone,XLR Input/Output, Uses 1:1 Isolation Transformer : Musical Instruments

 

 

[datacommando]

On 6/19/2025 at 12:08 PM, knob4002 said:

maybe I should have wired them this way:

 

XLR to Mono jack

 

using mono jack instead of TRS...

Err… yeah. The Send/Return sockets on your HXFX are unbalanced connections. Always use the correct type of cable - do not start cutting cables, that’s not a good idea.

 

On 6/19/2025 at 10:08 AM, knob4002 said:

The only problem I'm trying to solve now is annoying hum... not so loud, but significantly increased compared to another config where I go direct with guitar into the amp - then Captor - then stereo return Block on HXFX which in this case is the FIRST block at the beginning, but obviously doesn't let you use distortion/boost/compressor (in MONO) BEFORE the amp...

Revisiting this “annoying hum”. You clearly state that this is less of an issue when you patch directly into the Amp > Captor > Return into HXFX. 

 

Well, you should consider that some of this “hum” could possibly be being introduced when you’re adding those blocks for “distortion/boost/compressor” prior to it being sent to the amp. The HXFX has a Noise Gate on the guitar input that you can utilise if this hum is emanating from a badly shielded guitar, but also be aware that a compressor is designed to even out dynamics in the signal - i.e. it can make louder sounds quieter, and quiet sounds louder. You may be adding to what is essentially a little background hum, then compressing it (making it louder), then sending that to your amplifier (making it even more noticeable), and so forth. Adding a compressor after distortion will increase noise levels, and similar to hacking cables - best avoided.

 

Take note of the other possibilities mentioned in the post above.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[knob4002]

On 6/19/2025 at 6:51 PM, rd2rk said:

There's nothing wrong with that but knowing the full picture would have saved me a lot of typing.

 

Really sorry about that, and thank you so much for your pacience.

 

 

On 6/19/2025 at 6:51 PM, rd2rk said:

I'm sorry, but only the XLR and HP Outs are stereo.

The INPUT is MONO, as is the speaker out.

That was exactly I'd want to say, totally agree with you "is a STEREO device" means that can output a stereo signal ;-)

 

 

On 6/19/2025 at 6:51 PM, rd2rk said:

Unless I'm missing something, the only FX you're getting out of your amp's speaker are whatever effects are in your amp.

Exactly! At the moment I'm not using a Speaker. In a live situation I'd use a Tonex Pedal with profiles instead of my "AmpHead+CaptorX".

The actual setup is intended to be used at home for recording and practice purposes.

Right to say that without using AmpHead send/return I'd obtain a dry signal from the speaker output of the Captor X.

 

On 6/19/2025 at 6:51 PM, rd2rk said:

I'm pretty sure that the cables should be wired XLR>TS, not TRS.

I'm gonna do it this way!

 

On 6/19/2025 at 6:51 PM, rd2rk said:

I use my Helix (or HX Stomp - same as HXFX but with amps) in 4cm with my Catalyst. No, I don't do that.

...so I'm NOT gonna do it this way!