Helix Stadium Latency Driver Optimization

[browland]

I'm hoping the USB drivers for the Helix Stadium have been significantly improved from the previous generation?  If the driver performance has been optimized to provide stable low latency recording, then the Helix Stadium could be a great option for many studios that use virtual instrument plugins for drums and keyboards.  Is improved USB latency performance important to other Helix users?   What are your thoughts?

 

Latency Test Results (Helix LT / Mac M1 Max)

https://www.afteraudio.com/musings/blog/7495423/audio-interfaces-for-live-streaming

 

Video that discusses latency.

 

 

 

The USB format itself doesn’t affect latency — it’s really more about other factors, like buffer size, driver quality, converter processing, and your computer’s performance. Smaller buffers can reduce latency, but they can also put a bigger load on your CPU, and a well-optimized driver makes a big difference, too. So while choosing between USB 2.0 or 3.x won’t affect latency much, there are plenty of other things that can.

[SaschaFranck]

On 6/16/2025 at 12:10 PM, browland said:

Have the USB drivers for the Helix Stadium been significantly improved from the previous generation? 

 

How would anyone round these parts know?

[SaschaFranck]

And fwiw, the guy in the video has zero clue about latencies and the reasons for that. He's making a great deal about what USB standard is supported. But that's *completely* irrelevant! RME managed to get the lowest latencies by far out of USB 2 10+ years ago already. So there.

[SaschaFranck]

Oh, I see, it's your video. Then you have no clue about latency and the underlying reasons for it to be small or huge. Sorry to say so.

[browland]

Good point.  I'm asking in hopes that Line 6 support will be able to provide this information before Helix Stadium is released.  USB latency performance was the main reason why I had to use a separate audio interface for recording.

 

Is improved USB latency performance important to other Helix users?

[SaschaFranck]

And fwiw, you're even mentioning Motu. I have an M2. Lowest latencies in its class. Still over USV 2. And you even say it yourself that drivers are the most important thing - which they kinda are, in combination with the used chipset and firmware. So why are you even mentioning USB 2 vs. 2.1 vs. 3 and what not as being important? They're not.

[SaschaFranck]

On 6/16/2025 at 12:22 PM, browland said:

Is improved USB latency performance important to other Helix users?

 

For me, latency is absolutely crucial in my little home studio as I exclusively monitor through software unless I'm using guitar related hardware. Even more important when I'm on the road, because that's where I can't take any hardware monitoring devices with me (apart from my big floorboard which will not make it to hotel rooms and such - let alone to vacations).
And yes, the last generation of HX devices come with unbearable high latency numbers. Playing an amp sim plugin through them is not possible for me at all (while not being "Mr. In The Pocket" I still seem to be pretty sensitive to latency). Which is why I also own the Motu (ok, I also got it because of the mic ins and the form factor).

 

So, if that was improved, I'd greatly appreciate it - but in case they manage to keep device latency low, I'd possibly not get too mad about interface latency. If I was to build a small studio setup around it, that'd however become much more of a concern.

[browland]

I was just curious what version of USB is being used to know what the bandwidth and data transfer speeds are for things like importing audio into showcase.  It is true that the USB version does not directly affect latency until USB4/Thunderbolt (which I mentioned in my video), which has a more direct connection to the CPU.  I'm not an expert at all this........I'm just hoping that the Helix Stadium USB drivers are better. 

[browland]

On 6/16/2025 at 6:30 AM, SaschaFranck said:

 

For me, latency is absolutely crucial in my little home studio as I exclusively monitor through software unless I'm using guitar related hardware. Even more important when I'm on the road, because that's where I can't take any hardware monitoring devices with me (apart from my big floorboard which will not make it to hotel rooms and such - let alone to vacations).
And yes, the last generation of HX devices come with unbearable high latency numbers. Playing an amp sim plugin through them is not possible for me at all (while not being "Mr. In The Pocket" I still seem to be pretty sensitive to latency). Which is why I also own the Motu (ok, I also got it because of the mic ins and the form factor).

 

So, if that was improved, I'd greatly appreciate it - but in case they manage to keep device latency low, I'd possibly not get too mad about interface latency. If I was to build a small studio setup around it, that'd however become much more of a concern.

I use the MOTU Ultralite MK5 which is only USB 2.0 (using a USB-C connector) but it can get down to 2ms of latency while still being very stable.  I'm hoping Line 6 developers can get anywhere close to that type of performance.

 

Thanks for your input.  Your responses helped me refine my initial post questions.

[rd2rk]

@browlandThe first reply you received was not just snark.

This is a user-to-user support forum.

Nobody from Line6 hangs out here.

If you're really interested in the subject, post over at The Gear Page in the Digital and Modeling Forum.

Eric Klein (aka Digital Igloo) and others from L6 post there regularly.

[datacommando]

On 6/16/2025 at 11:22 AM, browland said:

I'm asking in hopes that Line 6 support will be able to provide this information before Helix Stadium is released.

Hi,

 

Same response as @rd2rk in the reply above, but in addition it would appear that even the Beta Testers that occasionally posted here have dropped out.

 

You should also be aware that anyone involved in the development of the Helix Stadium will be bound by NDAs, so you can expect to find out any deep workings of this new product when the rest of us mere mortals do! Unless, of course, you want to pitch you question to the TGP forum.
 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[SaschaFranck]

Fwiw, there's one way to reduce latency under macOS already, which would be to deinstall the Line 6 drivers and run the unit(s) via macOS' "native" Core Audio. This does in fact bring the latency down quite a bit (from around 16ms at 44.1, 32 samples to a mere 9.5ms at 48kHz, IIRC), but that would limit you otherwise. Anything not using 48kHz might be impacted and you might as well run into trouble opening multiple apps using the unit as their output device, especially in case different apps are mixing different sample rates (which is absolutely no problem with the drivers installed).

 

Maybe something similar is possible under Windows running the unit as a class compliant USB device and then using ASIO4All to achieve lower latencies in your DAW.

JFTR: HX Edit will work without the drivers nonetheless, so it might be worth a testrun.

 

For me personally (on a Mac), that method had more disadvantages, so I went back to the L6 driver. And if at all, ASIO4All might be an even worse "solution".

And I also knew I just had to use a dedicated interface for low DAW latencies straight from the start.

 

Anyway, it'd be great if they adressed that issue with the Stadium series. And I'd almost bet they will. After all, the big Stadium boys elevate them among the top 3 (or so) pricewise, so it'd possibly not be the best idea if the audio interface driver delivered the worst latency figures in its class (which unfortunately is the case with the current lineup, even my cheesy Zoom G3 does better).

 

 

[rd2rk]

Considering all the amazing stuff they've stuffed into Stadium that I'll probably never use, it kinda makes sense that they'd fix the drivers and incorporate MIDI v2. I understand the pricing logic of not making people pay for compatibility with abandoned products like Variax and Powercab, but I'm not paying another $250 for an extra box to be able to optimize using my Powercab, so the actual AGOURA AMP MODELING improvements better be good 'cause I don't give a rat's patootie about the "capture" tech, and my 9yo Helix floor and Powercab still sounds great!

 

I've pre-ordered, but waiting to hear more details and sound samples before I spend that money!

[browland]

On 6/16/2025 at 10:28 AM, rd2rk said:

@browlandThe first reply you received was not just snark.

This is a user-to-user support forum.

Nobody from Line6 hangs out here.

If you're really interested in the subject, post over at The Gear Page in the Digital and Modeling Forum.

Eric Klein (aka Digital Igloo) and others from L6 post there regularly.

Thanks, will do

[browland]

On 6/16/2025 at 11:33 AM, datacommando said:

Hi,

 

Same response as @rd2rk in the reply above, but in addition it would appear that even the Beta Testers that occasionally posted here have dropped out.

 

You should also be aware that anyone involved in the development of the Helix Stadium will be bound by NDAs, so you can expect to find out any deep workings of this new product when the rest of us mere mortals do! Unless, of course, you want to pitch you question to the TGP forum.
 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

It's been awhile since I posted here, so I wasn't aware that most of the Line 6 crew are not hanging out anymore.

[browland]

On 6/16/2025 at 12:07 PM, SaschaFranck said:

Fwiw, there's one way to reduce latency under macOS already, which would be to deinstall the Line 6 drivers and run the unit(s) via macOS' "native" Core Audio. This does in fact bring the latency down quite a bit (from around 16ms at 44.1, 32 samples to a mere 9.5ms at 48kHz, IIRC), but that would limit you otherwise. Anything not using 48kHz might be impacted and you might as well run into trouble opening multiple apps using the unit as their output device, especially in case different apps are mixing different sample rates (which is absolutely no problem with the drivers installed).

 

Maybe something similar is possible under Windows running the unit as a class compliant USB device and then using ASIO4All to achieve lower latencies in your DAW.

JFTR: HX Edit will work without the drivers nonetheless, so it might be worth a testrun.

 

For me personally (on a Mac), that method had more disadvantages, so I went back to the L6 driver. And if at all, ASIO4All might be an even worse "solution".

And I also knew I just had to use a dedicated interface for low DAW latencies straight from the start.

 

Anyway, it'd be great if they adressed that issue with the Stadium series. And I'd almost bet they will. After all, the big Stadium boys elevate them among the top 3 (or so) pricewise, so it'd possibly not be the best idea if the audio interface driver delivered the worst latency figures in its class (which unfortunately is the case with the current lineup, even my cheesy Zoom G3 does better).

 

 

I've always had issues with stability running ASIO4All and I don't like the extra layer it adds between the driver and OS.  I gave up on using the Line 6 driver in the Helix LT and instead went with running the analog outputs into the MOTU UL mk5 which works great.   I have high hopes for the Helix Stadium and the Line 6 developers listen to user requests.  They probably got the best performance they could out of the old Helix USB connection.  Hopefully the new USB connection and drivers are improved.  Using the Helix USB outputs would make recording so much easier and flexible than my current setup (workaround).

[browland]

On 6/16/2025 at 12:45 PM, rd2rk said:

Considering all the amazing stuff they've stuffed into Stadium that I'll probably never use, it kinda makes sense that they'd fix the drivers and incorporate MIDI v2. I understand the pricing logic of not making people pay for compatibility with abandoned products like Variax and Powercab, but I'm not paying another $250 for an extra box to be able to optimize using my Powercab, so the actual AGOURA AMP MODELING improvements better be good 'cause I don't give a rat's patootie about the "capture" tech, and my 9yo Helix floor and Powercab still sounds great!

 

I've pre-ordered, but waiting to hear more details and sound samples before I spend that money!

I'm not worried about the Proxy capture feature either, but I might test it out to see if it's something I'll use in the future.  One thing I like about Helix is that people were able to come up with new creative uses for some of the Helix features that the developers didn't think of.

[SaschaFranck]

On 6/16/2025 at 11:51 PM, browland said:

They probably got the best performance they could out of the old Helix USB connection.

 

As said, it's got nothing to do with that. It's about the used interface chipset, the firmware and the drivers.