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Who Thought This Was A Good Idea? Is It? Broken String Ends In The Vax Guts


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#1 Jasonbrianmerrill

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:01 PM

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#2 clay-man

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:26 PM

That's definitely not good. That could cause a short. What model JTV do you have?


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#3 Jasonbrianmerrill

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:30 PM

JTV-69, korea


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#4 clay-man

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:41 PM

JTV-69, korea

 

Ouch, that's the one I want. Is there a cavity that the string ends keep falling into?

You might have to do something stupid like put tape on the ends or like tissue paper to make sure it doesn't fall out like that. I donno.


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#5 Jasonbrianmerrill

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:42 PM

there is a cavity yes. hopefully its ok if i do that. Im going to wait for some replies here. Im sure it's preventable. but.... were they thinking?


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#6 ozbadman

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:46 PM

So, for the 69 we have string falling off fretboard edge on high e-string problem (which they "fixed" by filing the fret edge at a slightly steeper angle), tremolo snaps back onto body when all strings are removed, strings fall into electronics cavity when they break, and more subjectively, terrible stock pickups, huge headstock, ugly headstock logo, and ugly top-hat tuning control. Sounds like a bit of a mess. Such a shame, as I am strat guy and would like to get a JTV-Strat, but this 69 is not going to do it for me. Too many physical and aesthetic problems.


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#7 phil_m

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 03:20 PM

I've never noticed that until now. I just looked in mine and there were two string ends in mine. I don't break strings all that often, so who knows how long they've been there. I guess if there hasn't actually been an issue with them affecting anything by now, it's more of an annoyance than anything. I may look into stuff something into the hole between the trem cavity and the electronics. It looks like they're just sliding down through the hole for the wiring.


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#8 TheRealZap

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 03:26 PM

yikes! i figured it was some sloppy factory work... but Phil's is USA, so yikes!

 

I've never noticed that until now. I just looked in mine and there were two string ends in mine. I don't break strings all that often, so who knows how long they've been there. I guess if there hasn't actually been an issue with them affecting anything by now, it's more of an annoyance than anything. I may look into stuff something into the hole between the trem cavity and the electronics. It looks like they're just sliding down through the hole for the wiring.


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#9 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 04:30 PM

I guess the lesson here is go find the end if you break a string.  The way the trem on the 69 is designed there has to be a nice big opening to the electronics board so that the wires don't rub on anything.  The string end can easily make it's way through that opening.


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#10 toneman2121

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:31 PM

yikes is right! i was just inquiring about differences between u.s. and korean models. apparently the quality of materials is better but the design is lacking. i hope the fret work is up to snuff on the u.s. model. for 2x the cost it better be. so, is there a way that the user can fix the broken-string-end-in-the-electronics-cavity problem? i suppose spraying the board with electrical lacquer would prevent shorting, if not already coated.


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#11 phil_m

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:41 PM

Not trying to minimize anything, but I guess this doesn't bother me too much. Like I said, if it's something simple, I may try to block the whole between the cavities, but I break strings so infrequently, I might not mess with it. Given that it's literally been months since I broke a string and these pieces were floating around down there for so long without issue, I think the risk of a short seems pretty minimal. I'm more concerned about the inconvenience of removing the backplate to get to the pieces.

 

It seems that broken strings have a tendency to become a nuisance in floating trem systems. I don't know how many times I've had to poke the ball end out of a Strat trem with a paper clip or something else.


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#12 Jasonbrianmerrill

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:06 PM

I guess the lesson here is go find the end if you break a string.  The way the trem on the 69 is designed there has to be a nice big opening to the electronics board so that the wires don't rub on anything.  The string end can easily make it's way through that opening.

 


that's not a lesson. that's a workaround.

 

during a gig, I don't have time, in the dark, to ensure that I have every single string break accounted for.


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#13 clay-man

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:56 PM

So, for the 69 we have string falling off fretboard edge on high e-string problem (which they "fixed" by filing the fret edge at a slightly steeper angle), tremolo snaps back onto body when all strings are removed, strings fall into electronics cavity when they break, and more subjectively, terrible stock pickups, huge headstock, ugly headstock logo, and ugly top-hat tuning control. Sounds like a bit of a mess. Such a shame, as I am strat guy and would like to get a JTV-Strat, but this 69 is not going to do it for me. Too many physical and aesthetic problems.

 

Agreed. I LOVE, my Variax 600, it's freaking great. Not the best materials maybe, but it's design and build is great. Only problem I have with it is the crappy plastic nut which gives tuning problems. I need to throw in a TUSQ nut on it someday.

 

I look at the 69, and it just looks really goofy. The body is nice, but the headstock and neck is really lackluster. I like the fender headstock on my 600, the decals look lovely with the Line6 logo on the bottom center and "the Variax" logo on the bottom right where the curve is. Looks stylish, professional.

 

I don't know much about James Tyler, but I know he's supposed to be a highly acclaimed luthier. 

 

This thing with the ball ends falling into the electronic cavity is awful and can short your circuit board if it lands and connects 2 points together. That's not good at all.

All I can suggest is be careful with your broken strings and make sure they don't fall into the cavity. If there's any way to obstruct the strings from falling into the cavity, then try it, ONLY if you know it won't damage your guitar.

 

I don't get why the strings have to be front-loading. My strings go through the trem block on my 600 and they don't fall into the cavity when they break. If anything, they should fall outside of the guitar since there's an opening so you can restring without taking off the tremelo cavity cover.

 

Sorry to hear that you guys are having this problem. 


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#14 clay-man

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:59 PM

Sorry for the double post, but after looking at the 69's bridge, here's an idea:

 

Get pieces of thread, tie one part through the hole off the ball, then the other end to the saddle screw for each string.

Yeah or nah?


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#15 Jasonbrianmerrill

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:12 PM

I would jump out of a building and slit my throat on the way down if I had to go back to the 600, no offense. even with this issue.


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#16 clay-man

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:21 PM

I would jump out of a building and slit my throat on the way down if I had to go back to the 600, no offense. even with this issue.

 

In design? I don't mean the entire design, I mean the trem block at most. Personally that and a better headstock is the only thing I want with the 69


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#17 johnnyayyy

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:01 PM

I look at the 69, and it just looks really goofy. The body is nice, but the headstock and neck is really lackluster. I like the fender headstock on my 600, the decals look lovely with the Line6 logo on the bottom center and "the Variax" logo on the bottom right where the curve is. Looks stylish, professional.

 

Hmmmmm... I know this is off topic, but have you ever considered buying a JTV69 and swapping the 600 neck over? It would still be all L6 so the coolest JTV neck swap I have seen IMO, no additional cost for the neck swap (very easy to DIY), and no loss if and when you resell as you could easily put the 69 neck and the 600 neck back on the guitars they came from. Also should be pretty easy to find a 600 neck on ebay cheap if you wanted to keep your 600 intact. Just a thought...


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#18 stevekc

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:03 PM

I use Fender Bullets as my preferred strings on all my guitars with Strat type tremolos, including the JTV-69.



The Fender Bullet end is definitely superior to regular strings. I've been using Fender Bullet strings for decades and when a string breaks, its never at the bullet end.

 

 

Normal String Ball ends 

bullets2.jpg

 

 

Fender Bullet Ends 

bullets1.jpg

 

 

These strings have several benefits for Variax JTV-69  users.

 

The Bullets "sit snug " in the Tremolo Block and are more stable  - which means the guitar is far more stable and stays in tune after whammy bar use.

 

* If a string does break, the possible Loose Bullet end is sufficiently large enough that it would not migrate thru  MY piezo bridge cable pass thru hole and end up in the DSP PC board cavity. (BUT SEE BELOW FOR EXPLANATION WHY)

* The other benefit is the fact that Fender Bullet strings are a "polished" round wound string that allows lower action with less buzz on frets, which improves Alt Tunings and yields fewer sonic anomalies compared to standard round wound strings  - as a MIDI Guitarist, i also prefer Fender Bullets as the polishing yields much less sonic squeaks from my fingers as a change fast jazz chord changes.

 

* Fender Bullet Strings are on all of  Larry Carlton's guitars, and many session players in LA rely on them for cleaner "no finger squeak / no fret buzz " guitar recordings   

 

====================

 

 But back to the topic of this thread - how to prevent ball ends migrating into the JTV-69's  DSP cavity and making sparks and smoke -

 

I suggest all JTV-69 Owners re-visit my old thread on the old forum here:

 

 

JTV-69 Tremolo Setup

(for the JTV-69 "Gen II" models  - Summer 2011 version)          Oct.30, 2011

http://www.vguitarfo...g67477#msg67477

Ask Line 6, and its apparent there remains several opinions on the correct location for the cable ties used on the Variax Piezo Cable Harness.

 

 

In the pic below  - See the cable "pass thru hole" in the JTV-69 body for the two grey piezo bridge cables to pass from the rear tremolo spring cavity to the DSP Board cavity.

 

IMG_3113.jpg  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HIDDEN CABLE TIE

 

What is NOT readily apparent is the "HIDDEN CABLE TIE" on my JTV-69 - LOCATED INSIDE the cable "pass thru hole".

 In the pic below, observe the hidden internal cable tie located out of sight, inside the cable feed thru hole to the DSP board inside the body. Securing these cables properly is mandatory for proper Tremolo operation. If the Piezo bridge cables are not properly managed with tie wraps placed at specific locations, they WILL  create friction as the cables rub against the body and become a constant source of tremolo instability.

 

 

 

P1020019.jpg

 

 

and another pic of this "hidden"  black cable tie!

 

P1020037.jpg

 

This cable tie located inside the cable pass thru hole help minimizes the chance of broken Fender Bullet  ends migrating into the DSP board and causing an electrical short on the Variax DSP board..   

 

But there are no guarantees - if you break a string at the ball end during a gig - and cant immediately change it or find the loose ball end  - I advise unplug the guitar and remove the Variax Battery,  until you can inspect the guitar's DSP board cavity for loose ball ends and replace the string 


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#19 clay-man

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 02:46 AM

Hmmmmm... I know this is off topic, but have you ever considered buying a JTV69 and swapping the 600 neck over? It would still be all L6 so the coolest JTV neck swap I have seen IMO, no additional cost for the neck swap (very easy to DIY), and no loss if and when you resell as you could easily put the 69 neck and the 600 neck back on the guitars they came from. Also should be pretty easy to find a 600 neck on ebay cheap if you wanted to keep your 600 intact. Just a thought...

 

I actually have thought about that, and I think it would be great. The only problem is that I believe this voids the warranty.


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#20 phil_m

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:19 AM

Looking at that picture above, I wonder if putting some sort of split grommet on the trem side of that hole wouldn't do the trick. It wouldn't have to be tight around the wires going through the hole, but it would close the gap enough so the ball end doesn't get through.


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